Surrendering to God's Higher Plan with Kim Oswalt

In this episode of Just Talking About Jesus, host Jan Johnson meets with Kim Oswalt to hear her heartfelt testimony about discovering faith during her teenage years in Utah. 

Despite her family's irregular church attendance, Kim's journey took off when a move prompted a deeper connection to God through a local church community.

 Her story highlights the value of youth groups and finding mentors who inspire bold, everyday faith. 

Kim shares how God’s presence in her life has been evident through various life upheavals, paving the way for unexpected yet beautiful outcomes.

Do you ever feel like you're fighting a battle no one can see?

Lies like “You’re not enough” or “You’ll never change” don’t just hurt—they shape how we see ourselves, others, and even God.

What thoughts have taken root in your mind that God never planted?

You may like the Battle for Our Minds, and that one is uncovering the lies that we've been told and being able to replace them with the truth of what God says about us in His Word.

https://www.kimoswalt.com/

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Transcript

Jan: Hello, everyone, and welcome to Just Talking About Jesus. I have Kim Oswalt with me today. Welcome, Kim.

Kim: Hi. Thanks for having me.

Jan: So glad to have you here. I saw Kim on Facebook. It's. And I thought, oh, she's got topics and things that she does that would definitely resonate with people who listen here.

So glad to have you.

Kim: I'm glad to connect with your audience. This is going to be awesome, for sure.

Jan: Tell us about your testimony. Where did you meet God? Is this something you were, like, grew up with or, you know, you had a specific moment or what happened?

Kim: Yeah. So when I was younger,

my parents took us to church, but it was never regular attendance.

We visited a couple of different churches. Most of the.

Most of Jesus that I heard about was going with friends growing up. And it wasn't until we moved to the grand state of Utah,

of all places,

that I was introduced to Jesus.

It was actually as a result of wanting to learn more about a different denomination,

and my parents were very strongly against that. And so they. They took me to our local Baptist church and our family started attending regularly.

We were baptized together,

and I always wondered why.

But in the same regard, I looked at that and it. It kind of prompted me to start on my own faith journey.

So I was able to really get involved at church. Started attending the youth group and that.

I mean, I. I feel like I did it in backwards order. Does that make sense?

Jan: Yeah.

Kim: We got baptized and then later on I was like, oh,

oh, this is what this means. And so I really got to meet Jesus in youth group. And I had friends that were on fire for him. And so they were beautiful examples of what it was like to walk with God every day.

I had a wonderful friend that at school we'd be sitting in the cafeteria at lunch and she'd have her Bible out and we'd be reading different sections. And it was just.

She showed me what life was like with day in, day out with Jesus. So. So it was around that time that I began to really understand who he was and what he did for me.

And I was about 16 or 17,

so. Yeah. Yeah. It was teenage years of all. All times.

Jan: Total importance of youth group and young life and going to camp and all of that.

Kim: So many cherished memories.

Jan: Yeah. I mean, yeah, I. There's an occasional testimony of somebody who wasn't seeking him and not just zaps him and, you know.

Kim: Yeah. Oh, yeah, for sure.

Jan: Oh, yeah. You are going to think about me.

Kim: Yeah.

Jan: Show you who I am, you know, whatever.

But. But it seems more often is just the value of being a kid and somebody speaking truth in their lives. And then you had a friend, mentor, which is what a bold,

amazing person that had to have been.

Kim: I know, right? I mean,

again, like I, I have a, I have a teenage daughter and I, I would love for her to have that kind of bold faith,

but the area we live in is just not that way. And so for my friend who was not from this area to have, have the courage to just show up, bring her Bible and I mean we, we had people come up and do, what are you reading?

Why are you reading that? And it's like,

it was just really, really an amazing blessing and I'm just grateful for,

for having people like that in my life.

Jan: Yeah. Yeah. And, and it just the lesson to be that person, you know?

Kim: Absolutely, absolutely.

Jan: To be that person in somebody else's life and to really know.

Wow. Wow, that's cool.

Tell me,

have you had. Of course you've had. Everybody has at some point.

Tell me at about maybe a God moment, A but God moment that you had in your life.

Kim: Oh, goodness gracious.

I have had quite a few and it's.

I think the older I get, the more I look back and the more I can see where his tender hand has been just guiding me the whole way.

My dad was air force and we moved about every four years and it was not always a welcome thing,

especially where we were at in Alabama. I had settled in and loved it and we moved here to Utah when I was in ninth grade. And so I was kind of in that in between teenage stage where I could have stayed in Alabama.

My mom still lived in Alabama. My dad was transferred out to Utah. So I had an option, but I chose to come here and didn't like it for the longest time.

Didn't. Didn't like it here. And so my plan was I'm going to go back to Alabama. I want to be with my family. I want to go back to my friends.

Utah just isn't fitting all of the different things.

But now as an adult, I look back at all the things that he was protecting me from and he was,

he was just putting, positioning me for everything that I'm doing right now.

My husband actually lived in Alabama the same time I did.

We never met each other there. We met each other here in Utah.

And so I, I think to like, had I stayed there, I probably would have never met him. Even though our paths crossed there.

I mean, just all the things I.

God has just. He's done so much.

There's Been that.

Yeah, we just.

My husband was in the Air Force for a short period of time.

We transferred to Alaska.

Wasn't an interesting adventure, but it wasn't long after we got there that.

That God just changed our course. He ended up being medically discharged and we ended up back in Utah.

And our plan was to be there for 20 years and. Or not Alaska necessarily, but in that career field. And again, I look back at those moments of uncertainty and not really knowing what God had in store, and I couldn't imagine that life anymore.

Like, I just, I know that God intervened at just that moment for us to be able to be on the path we're on right now. So. So I just. I have so many.

So many different.

But God's. I just, I. I call it God's hand at work in my life, and he's just always working in my life. It's so beautiful.

Jan: Yeah. Yeah.

And. And right there it's testimony to,

you know, when God says no to prick,

you know, and you're just thinking,

I thought this was a good idea.

Kim: Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

Jan: I'm wondering why you're not thinking that.

Kim: Yeah, yeah, yeah. We felt certain this was our path, Lord, and he. He just showed us that. Yeah, it was your path for a little bit. And now I'm going to move you in a different direction.

And. Yeah, I just. I feel like even I have a closer relationship with him now because I didn't get my way.

Jan: True.

Kim: Yeah.

Jan: Yeah. And, you know, of course, hindsight is always. You're able to look back and see where all of those Absolutely. Things were. You know, where he was here and where he was there and where he was there.

That. That in the midst of. Sometimes you just cannot.

You can't. You can't.

You know, what are you doing? It's just. I know.

Yeah.

Kim: Yeah. Well. And sometimes it feels like.

I mean, we looked at the military as a safe, safe plan. Like it's going to take care of us for 20 years. We'll have healthcare, we'll have housing. We'll have all the things.

And then to.

Not even two and a half years into it, it was over. And so we're still young and we're still trying to figure out what we want to do with our lives.

And so there was a lot of uncertainty, but. But God just really stepped up and really showed. Showed himself faithful. So.

Jan: Yeah. Wow. Yeah. And I suppose, you know, I mean, there's so many of those faithful scriptures to hold on to. Rance.

Kim: Yes.

Yeah. Yeah. You read through everybody's all. I call them everybody's stories in the Bible. But when you read through the stories in the Bible, it's just constant affirmation that he's faithful.

Jan: Yeah. And this is just that for me, this is kind of validating that. I published a Bible study this year called the Journey. And. And the.

The preface of it is basically making a map of your own journey of where because of God, this happened, resulting in.

Kim: Oh, that's so cool.

Jan: Didn't happen. That wouldn't happen and whatever. And then taking the same thing with Ruth, David, Joseph, and Jonah, you know.

Kim: Oh, yeah, yeah, for sure.

Jan: In each of those. Where was God with them? Where did that match up with things in your life and going back and forth. But yeah, this is just.

Your story is just like that. You know that.

Kim: That's so cool. Yeah, yeah. Well, that's. My first book is based on that. Like, living life in such a way that we look for the ways that God's at work and just knowing he's always doing something.

It might not look pretty in the moment, but he's always up to something.

And I mean, even. Even the things that I've looked back with,

like devastation and heartbreak and misunderstanding what he was doing in that moment,

he had a plan, and it was a beautiful plan for me to see him and then also to be used by Him. And so I just. I love. I love that idea of just mapping it out and seeing.

Seeing where.

What each step has led us in the next direction of.

Jan: Yeah, yeah. God with you every step of the way.

Kim: Amen. Amen. Yeah, every step.

Jan: And it just. Whether you see it or not, you know, but.

And.

And look at the fruits of those things. Those things that we have especially. That are painful.

When are you closest to God?

Oh, gosh.

Kim: Well. And you don't grow if you're. If you don't go through the hard stuff like you grow through what you go through.

Jan: But he's also. I have a. Another friend that I'd interviewed before and has a. She's writing a book called Chosen.

Kim: Oh, how cool.

Jan: No, but. But God chose you for this situation so that he could use you for.

Kim: Yep.

Jan: Something bigger or helping. Something bigger or whatever. And it. It just was like. Because you don't think,

oh,

you chose me to miscarry three times or to do. Yes. You know, exactly.

Lose a child or to, you know, all those things. All those things that happen in our lives, you know,

but to turn it around and say no, he did choose me for this, and this is why. And even I don't see it yet.

Kim: Oh, yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah.

That's been one of.

I mean,

all of those situations are hard,

but all of those situations in the hand of God are beautiful because he'll redeem it.

Jan: Yeah.

Yeah. And I think part of that is just growing.

Growing to really know God.

Yes.

You can have a bad thing happen and then you can go,

this stuff's not for me, and away.

Kim: Yeah.

Jan: Or you can learn to trust him in it as you walk and you see those things that he does. Just like in Joshua 4, you know, when they. They took the stones and made a memorial.

Kim: Yep.

Jan: Right. Yep.

Kim: Yeah. I actually, that's a chapter in my first book, so I love how God is using that in both of our lives. That's so cool.

Jan: Yeah. Yeah, it's really neat.

So what about things that,

you know,

I guess when you're in the midst, you know, you really get deep into something. But. But when you're in the midst of something,

how could a person really surrender that and give it.

How have you found that makes that possible?

Kim: Oh, goodness.

I think there's many stages that you go through when it comes to going through something challenging like that.

Understandably, you need to feel what you need to feel.

But when you get to a place of acknowledging what you're feeling about it, you need to acknowledge who God is in it still.

He's not going to leave you.

He's not going to abandon you right where you're at. He's not going to.

He can redeem the pain that you're in. And so it's one of those things that, like,

for me, it is. It goes back to that remembrance. He's. He's come through before, he'll come through again.

Jan: Yeah.

Kim: This doesn't make sense right now, but one day it will.

And if it doesn't,

he's still good.

And that's. That's kind of the. The thing that I've had to repeat to myself as.

As I've started to work through hard things is just.

It doesn't make sense. But it might one day.

But even if it doesn't, he's still good and he's still got something bigger in store for me.

There's again, just the ways that he's used my pain to help somebody else through their season of pain.

It's been beautiful to watch, and it's made me have a deeper understanding of why I had to go through the pain in the first place.

So.

Jan: And don't you think too, when you share with somebody there's always a moment when you feel your purpose.

Kim: Oh, yes, yes.

Jan: You know, where. Where all of a sudden you just kind of. It's just this internal thing that, you know,

I just did what you want me to do. Didn't you? You know, this is like you indwelled me to come out to just do this with where it just. I don't know.

I don't even know how to describe it. It's kind of goosebumpy.

Kim: Yeah. Oh, yeah.

It's just. It's just affirmation that the other person needed to hear.

I feel like that's. That's a challenge for a lot of people. They'll walk into a small group, a Bible study group, and they just are like, nope, I'm going to hold on to whatever it is I'm going through because nobody needs to know or I don't feel comfortable sharing.

But when you share in your vulnerability and you. You bring somebody else into that piece of.

I'm hurting,

somebody else has an opportunity to say, I was there and I can help you. I know that God's going to get you through this because he got me through it.

So.

Jan: Exactly. Same God.

Kim: Amen.

Jan: Yes.

Kim: He is so good.

Jan: It's the same God. And that just so.

And I think, I guess that is a word to those who are leading Bible studies or ministries, you know, women's or men's, whatever that it's in. But to encourage people to share their stories because.

Kim: Yeah.

Jan: It takes. And lead by example.

Kim: Absolutely. Yeah. Nobody needs a perfect person up there acting like nothing ever goes wrong in their life.

Jan: Yeah. You know, but to hear somebody say, oh, I was afraid to tell my story because I didn't think,

you know,

I thought I might be rejected or they. Nobody's going to understand. They haven't been there. But there's so many,

I think, a lot of pain points at the same time level of heart issues.

Kim: Yeah, absolutely.

Jan: So those things can overlap between, you know, I mean, you look at grief. Grief is not just with death. No. I didn't want to move there.

Kim: Yes. Oh, my goodness. Yes. Exactly. That was. I grieved a while.

Jan: Yeah. Grief was. I. I didn't want to leave my friends.

Grief is. I didn't get the job I wanted. I. Grief is, you know,

I thought this was going to happen,

but it didn't. And now what am I doing? And whatever, you know.

Kim: Yeah. Yeah. And somebody else who has gone through a season of grief can help you walk through yours, even if it's a different reason for grief.

Jan: So Exactly.

Kim: Absolutely.

Jan: How do you reckon, you know, because this is like, I think this is a stumbling point and has been for me in the past as well.

But.

But you read the Old Testament and God gave somebody order to depravity, or God made this happen, you know, or flooded, and God did these things. So how do you balance out?

We got a good God, but God does these other things that look bad or hard.

Kim: Those other things have been allowed in my life.

Jan: Yeah. And there is that balancing act, like, is like,

wait, did I. Was I not walking with him? And so that's. Why is this a punishment? Is this a test? Is this a. Whatever. Let's talk about that a little bit.

Kim: Oh, yeah, for sure. Because I feel like that's. That's definitely a question we all encounter when we're going through something that doesn't make sense or we start to question, well, do I have a hidden sin in my life that, you know, that I may be being punished for?

Or why is God allowing this?

And I think that we may never know the answer of why God's allowing it.

But in many instances, I have been able to see on the other side of that pain,

why God allowed it.

To share an example, my husband has had three back surgeries, and his first one was at 25 years old. And so he was quite young when he had to have that one.

But for many years, he lived every day in a certain degree of pain. It was just always, always pain.

And he went to work in pain served. I mean, he. He worked through the pain, basically.

But he had a coworker approach him and tell him after he had a surgery that it was my husband's attitude and perspective through the pain that kept him alive, because he was going through something similar,

had an extreme amount of pain day in and day out. And he actually had planned to take his own life.

But because of my husband's example of getting through the pain, even though, I mean, some days at work were 8 or 9 on the pain scale and he just was pushing through.

But because of the way he handled it and because of the way he went through it, somebody else saw him go through it. Somebody. Somebody else knew that they could get through it.

That guy didn't end up taking his life. And so it's just like this beautiful example of just persevering.

Whatever God has you on, whatever pain journey you're on, whatever hard experience you're going through,

God can use it in ways that you wouldn't even know at the time. It was years later when this Coworker came back to him, and it was just this beautiful, redemptive story of how God was working,

even though it was a painful experience.

Jan: Yeah. Wow, that's beautiful. And I think, too, I just said that shows the importance not only of telling your story, but also of journaling.

Kim: Oh, yes.

Jan: As those.

Through journaling it or seeking, you know, really writing about those kind of things.

You can go back to that years later and see where.

Okay. Okay. Yeah, this is how. Lined up.

Kim: Yeah.

I've led a women's group for I.

10, 12 years, something like that. And I used to jot down our prayer requests in a notebook. And I still have that notebook. I'm like, oh, I remember when we were praying for your pregnancy or we were praying for you with your upcoming wedding.

And, you know, 10 years later, they're still going strong. So it's so cool to be able to have journals for your own life. And then also just prayer journals of.

Yeah. God's faithfulness. So.

Jan: Yeah. Yeah. I feel like that I'm supposed to do one more Bible study.

Kim: Oh, yay.

Jan: But it's on prayer. Yeah.

Kim: Oh, yeah.

Jan: So I just. I thought, oh.

And then all of a sudden, after God told me that, it just, like, started writing all these. And then, I mean, it's like the whole outline just went just like.

Kim: Oh, yeah.

Jan: Hey, all right.

Kim: Isn't it amazing how he gives you the topic and then he starts to fill in the blanks for you? And it just comes together so beautifully.

Jan: Yeah. I mean, just another way. So that leads us to. Let's talk about how to hear God's voice. How do you know?

Kim: Oh, my goodness gracious. Well,

a lot of what I've learned is just if it aligns with His Word. So a lot of the times we will have thoughts come into our head and we have to weigh them against Scripture and.

And just make sure that it does align with God's word repetition when he speaks. And he speaks the same thing through various passages,

you know, that you're hearing.

Jan: From him or just the confirmation of somebody else saying something, you know, to go, oh, well, that was random. Oh, that was random for me.

Kim: Exactly. Exactly.

Yeah. Yeah. I've had. I mean,

I have only ever had one time where I felt like I could hear him.

It sounds like it's probably like an oxymoron, but audibly in my own head,

if that makes sense. Like, it wasn't an audible voice, but it was.

Yeah. But it was very clear.

And it. Yeah, it just.

And it was him asking me to Trust him.

It was just asking me to trust him. And it was almost instantly I was like, okay, I trust you. And the weight. The peace,

like, the weight lifted off and the peace settled in, and it was just a beautiful,

beautiful encounter. But, yeah, so I feel like definitely those are the ways that I hear from him, is just aligning it with his word, making sure that it does line up with that.

And then also just spoken. Spoken through messages that are repeating themselves.

It's been the coolest thing to, like, do a Bible study and then go to church and hear that same thing preached again. And it's like, okay, God, I hear you.

I'll. I'll be faithful. I'll be obedient. Okay. Yes. And there was something last night I was listening to, and it just brought tears to my eyes. I just was like, God, you are just so good, the way that you speak and just affirm your message to me.

Jan: Yeah. Yeah. Isn't that true? I've only had one audible time, and that was when Howard was dying, my first husband. And he.

He came in. I was already in bed, but he came in and he's holding his hand and his head, and he was having a hemorrhage. I, you know.

Kim: Yeah.

Jan: Realize at the time, but. But I'm praying about. I said, is this it? Is this you know, what's going to happen?

And honestly, God just did 23rd Psalm. Yea, though I walk through the valley, shadow of death, I'll fear no evil. And I went,

oh. I mean, enough that I looked around because the ambulance was there to see if somebody. One of these guys had said something or whatever, too, to just really confirm.

Kim: What you were hearing.

Jan: And he repeated it and was just like, just,

wow.

Ways of knowing and going. And I just looked at Howard and I said, yep, this is it. You're going home. I mean,

wow.

Yeah.

Kim: Chills from that.

Jan: Yeah. Yeah.

Kim: That's cool. And I know that's, you know, that's a hard experience.

Jan: Yeah. But like, I was sharing earlier with you about when, you know, when I did the IO book and.

And God spoke to me about my son, you know,

like that night.

It's. It's just, you know, that one. I haven't had any other audibles, but it was like, I know something that pops in your head sometimes. Like that.

Like what you want me to do What?

Kim: Yes. Oh, my goodness, yes.

Jan: You know, exactly. But it's like.

And I think at each of those little milestones, like,

once you obey one time and you say,

gives you everything you need to make it happen.

Kim: You know, I mean, I feel like.

Because I've. I had that same type of experience where it was like, really, God, you want me to write a book? Really?

And I just. I fought him for so long, and then whenever I named the fear, the actual fear that was holding me back,

he lifted the weight off and he made a way.

And it just was like,

okay. And. And I don't battle a ton of anxiety, but, like, when my body feels anxious and then I feel him speak to me and the anxiety lifts off.

It's. In those moments, it's like, that was God. That was God working through whatever it was, speaking the way he does and just providing. Providing peace.

Jan: Yeah.

And I think you hit something there just with learning to discern,

to think through and be able to identify fear or that anxiety. What is it I'm really feeling. I mean, maybe a little counsely or something.

Kim: You know, we need a new cup of coffee for that one.

Jan: Right.

But truly to be able to spend. But it takes spending some time with God, you know. You know?

Absolutely. And being able to really say, what is this? What's really going on here with me? Help me know and identify this so that I can get beyond it, you know?

Kim: Yes.

Yeah. Well. And I feel like going along with that, too. Like,

if we're going to test what we're thinking against Scripture, we've got to be in scripture and we've got to spend that time with him. And the more we spend time with him, the more we'll get to know his voice.

And his voice is his. It's specific to me. It's specific to you. The way he speaks to each of us is going to be a little bit different, but those are definitely ways that we'll start to hear from Him.

Jan: Yeah,

yeah.

And I think it's to, you know, it's good to voice those things, you know, those.

Those ways that God speaks to us, to each other as well.

Kim: Absolutely.

Jan: And there again, you're modeling what God's doing. Doing with you so that they can, you know.

Kim: Yeah, yeah. Start to see him in their life.

Jan: Too, and recognize that. Yeah, yeah. And everybody's on their different level of where their walk is. And of course, age has something. Yeah.

Kim: Sometimes I feel like it doesn't, you know, but.

Jan: Yeah.

Kim: Yeah. Sometimes I feel like. I mean, I've met young Christians that are just completely on fire for God and just the ways that they can communicate with him and see him at work,

young, old, he's just. He's just amazing to us all.

Jan: Yeah, yeah, it is. It is. So tell me about. So you have written a couple of books? Three.

Kim: Yeah, yeah, I've got three out right now. Yeah, yeah.

Jan: So tell us about those.

Kim: Oh, goodness. Um, so the first one's the Abundant Life. And. And that one I do talk about recognizing God's hand at work in your life so that you can move forward with intention.

And again, that was for me, just being able to see him in my story so that I could share him with other people in their story so that they could start to see God's hand at work in their life and just identifying all the ways that.

That I've seen Him at work,

that he has. He has provided.

He has.

He's just given me the right people at the right time. He's responded through. Through a simple text message from someone. Just when I needed prayer, they were praying at that moment for me.

And it just made me feel loved by God.. So the Abundant Life speaks more to the different things that we go through in life and how all of it is part of God's plan for us and how he'll use it if we let Him.

And I mean, he'll use it, but it's even more beautiful when we participate with that.

And then I wrote the Battle for Our Minds, and that one is uncovering the lies that we've been told and being able to replace them with the truth of what God says about us in His Word.

Jan: That maybe pairs with Joyce Meyers.

Kim: Yes. Yeah, I did.

I actually have that book on my shelf. I'm not altogether sure. I know I haven't read it because I have a lot of to be reads.

But yeah, that one was more personal for me about just specifically, like,

the feeling of not being enough,

the feeling of being unworthy,

the feeling of being unwanted,

and just really uncovering how God sees me.

And as I share my story, I open up, you know, in my own vulnerability to invite others into that space so that they can start to maybe identify some of the lies they've believed about themselves and recognize that God says something different.

And then. Yeah, my newest book is Abiding with God. And it's just really encountering that a relationship with God is more than just that moment of salvation or spending eternity with Him.

It is every moment in between. And what does that look like? How does it look to actually have his presence dwelling inside of us?

What.

What fruits are we showing to the world by remaining in Jesus? So it's just. It's just been a really cool journey and I look at it as being able to reach back and hold someone's hand to bring them into what God has brought me through.

And I just feel like in all of these things, God's been working in my life. Let me tell you how so.

Jan: Wow. And so where are they available?

Kim: They are on Amazon.

Jan: Okay. And you have them in audio as well?

Kim: I do, yeah. Yeah. All three are recorded in audiobook. It was.

Jan: Yeah, yeah. Alison in the car.

Kim: Yes. Yeah. They. They're. They're quick reads, they're quick listens. So. Yeah, for sure.

Jan: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And where else can people find you?

Kim: I am on Facebook at Kim Oswalt, author, and on Instagram at Kim Oswalt, underscore author.

Jan: Okay.

Kim: And I have a website, kimoswalt. Com.

Jan: Okay. I'll put links in the show notes for those and.

Kim: Fantastic.

Jan: Yeah, we'll get some people headed your way.

Kim: Oh, awesome. Well, I.

I love to connect with people. I love to hear your stories, and I love to just be able to,

I guess, just share. Share what we're going through and.

Yeah. Connect in that way.

Jan: Yeah. What would be one final thing you'd like to leave listeners with?

Kim: Oh, my goodness.

I would just say that I think it's kind of. Kind of a weird statement, but my. My life verse was always Jeremiah 29:11.

And it was for the. No. For I know the plans that I have for you, saith the Lord, plans to prosper you, not to harm you.

And that was. That was the verse that I held onto. But if you. Fast forward to verse 13.

And if you seek me, you will find me when you seek me with your whole heart.

And that. That is the message that I think that I'm just carrying into this, this next year and going forward is just to seek him. Seek him. When you do, he will show up.

Jan: Absolutely. Absolutely. So good. All right. Well, thank you, Kim.

Kim: Yeah, thank you. I appreciate you having me.