Messy Games, Messier Questions and God in the Middle:Kellen Peterson

In this episode of 'Just Talking About Jesus,' youth pastor Kellen Peterson shares his transformative journey from a troubled youth to a leader in ministry. 

Kellen recounts how his early rebelliousness eventually led him to a role where he could make a meaningful impact. 

He emphasizes the importance of showing empathy and compassion, particularly to those on the fringes. 

Kellen reflects on the challenges that today's youth face, from the isolating effects of social media to negative media portrayals of Christianity, and discusses how these factors complicate forming a relationship with Christ in modern times.

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Transcript

Jan: Welcome, everybody, to this episode of Just Talking About Jesus. I have Kellen Peterson with me today. Hello, Kel.

Kellen: Hi.

Jan: Kellen is a youth pastor at our church. And I just think, you know, what a great job. What an amazing. Well, fun. Maybe. Some not so fun maybe.

Kellen: Depends on the week.

Jan: Little both. How did you get started in that?

Kellen: I got started in youth ministry because when I was a kid, I went to church. My family grew up in church. And when I was in middle school, high school, I started to kind of get into a lot of trouble.

And the punishment for getting in trouble is I had to go to youth group.

And so I was there, you know, week in and week out.

And I know that I probably presented as the trouble kid, which I think meant some of the leaders kind of steered clear of me.

So throughout most of the time that I was at this youth group, I didn't really feel like anybody really talked to me. I didn't really feel connected or plugged in.

So then I went to college and actually wound up dropping out of college after two years and worked on a cruise ship in Alaska and came back and decided that I was going to go to church,

not because my parents told me I had to, but because I wanted to. Because I kind of wanted to see what there was to this whole God thing.

And I remember kind of having a bargain with God in my head and saying, all right, I'll say yes to anything. I'll give you six months, and let's see if you're there.

You're listening.

Jan: Give me a timeframe.

Kellen: I was a little bit, very arrogant of me.

And in six months, I wound up not only helping at the church,

I got asked to help out with kids ministry, then be an intern for youth ministry.

And I wound up dating Carolyn, who we now, I've been married for about 13 years.

And so one of the reasons youth mystery in particular drew me is I thought, man, when I was in.

In middle school and high school, no one really paid attention to me, and I want to do better. And so I got involved because I wanted to make sure the kids that were kind of on the fringe, those that were sitting by themselves,

had someone to talk to, and they felt like the church was a place that they belonged to.

Jan: And so isn't that interesting how God starts a,

you know, uses your temperament, your personality, your maybe little rebellion or whatever it is to turn it into something good?

Kellen: Yeah, that's often the case.

And I've found that one of the great things is I have a lot of patience for kids. As a result, being that kid myself. And so I always tell them, I said, look, you need to realize I had to go through your age to get to the one that I'm at right now.

And I know the shenanigans.

Yeah. I was like, I know the shenanigans and the things that you're trying to do. And I just wanna let.

I used to do them. I used to do them better. So.

Jan: You can't beat me. I already done this. And I perfected it.

Kellen: Yeah. I actually ran into a guy who was one of my youth leaders at a different church. So we attended a church on Sunday mornings, and then there was a different church, a Calvary chapel down the street that did a Friday night youth group.

So we'd go there.

And I ran into him years later and I said, hey, how's it going? He said, great. He said,

you know, what are you up to? I said, actually, I'm going to seminary. And he goes, that's great. I always just thought you'd be in jail.

And he was serious. And I thought,

yeah, based off of who I was at that stage in life, that's. That's not an unreasonable assumption.

Jan: I'm thinking there might have been a little pause before he made any comment, kind of like, oh, yeah, oh, yeah.

Kellen: He was delighted, I think is the. Is the correct term. He was baffled, but a little delighted to see.

And that's what I think about with kids now. I know that some of these kids present as problems. And I think, man, if.

If I had been a leader, looking at high school me, I would have thought, man, that kid is going nowhere. But that's the power of hope.

And God got a hold of my heart and.

Yeah. So I enjoy what I get to do.

Jan: I think, you know, I look at some kids that I taught, you know, and I. It's just like, my gosh,

what is going to happen to them? What is going. You know, and then I meet them as adults and they're.

They're community members and they have a job and they have a job.

A lot of them working,

driving big trucks or doing guy things, you know, whatever with their hands and that kind of stuff that, you know, where school wasn't exactly the right setting for them and whatever, but they turned out all right.

And it's just kind of like,

I love this, you know, to see that in advance, you know, what God.

What God already knew.

Kellen: Yeah. And that is, again, the transformative power of the gospel. I mean,

that's because without Christ, I would still be that Guy. But because of Christ,

my life took a very different path. And so I always tell people, like, I'll run into some of my friends, and I think that they can sense, especially some of my childhood friends, how different I was back then to who I am now.

I'm like, if there's anything that's good in me, it's not me.

Jan: But, yeah, if you break it down, what would you say? Specifically because of Christ, what does that mean in your life? What. How would you break that down?

Kellen: I think that he's. I think my relationship with Christ has taught me to be a lot more compassionate with. With kids

You know, you go through all these different things, and you. You meet kids and you hear their stories, and I think some kids present as very tough cases. And then you find out what's going on in the home.

You find out what's going on behind the scenes, and it gives you a lot more empathy. And so then you learn to see people the way that Christ exists. And Christ loves each one of us individually.

And so it becomes a lot harder to just dismiss kids as bad kids.

Instead, you start seeing, well,

yeah, I can see you've got absent parent figures, or you're coming from a home where there's abuse, or,

I don't know, the myriad of different issues.

And, yeah, an empathy grows in you. And when you recognize how much Christ loves us,

you become more prone to share that with other people.

So it's a slow process.

Jan: Nobody's born a bad kid.

Kellen: I don't think so.

No. I think. I think kids have inclinations to do things, and good parenting can help some of that. And then the rest of it, man, it's gotta be a relationship with Jesus.

Jan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, what is it? What's better than being able to reach you, you know, to begin with and just starting out at the beginning, say, hey, look at him in the eye.

You're valued. I see you. You know,

I care about you. And I even care about you when you're goofy.

Kellen: Especially when you're. Yeah.

Jan: You know, when you're not the perfect kind of kid, you know, And I'm willing to walk through that with you as long as it takes to build that relationship.

Kellen: Yeah, that's what I think. I don't know where all my students will go once they leave the ministry, but I know, at least for one point in time,

they had an adult couple, me and my wife, who knew them, who cared about them, and who loved them,

and who hopefully were good representatives of Christ. And so wherever Their faith journey does or doesn't take them, at least they can look back and say, well, I know I at least went to a church with people who really believed in Jesus, and it seemed to make a difference.

I think sometimes that's the best that we can do. Sometimes it's planting the seeds, but I think most of the time we're just tending to what's already there. And so Christ can yield the harvest.

Jan: Mm.

I talked to, you know, really literally hundreds of people with their testimonies and things, and. And a lot of them,

you know, did you grow up in Christian home? Nope. You know, but I had, you know, somebody picked me up to go to Sunday school, or somebody took me to bbs or somebody took me to young life or to whatever, you know, where I never even heard of any of that before.

And that was the first time.

And that's what I clung to, that maybe had some time in between.

But that's the one thing that I knew.

It was like an anchor,

you know, like that.

And what a privilege to be that person that can be speaking. Speaking that truth, you know, that God chose you.

Don't you sometimes feel like,

wow, you know, in some situations, don't you just kind of feel like an overwhelming.

Chose me to have this impact or to do.

Kellen: Yeah, absolutely. I.

Yeah, I think about the twists and turn of my life and what I thought. When I was in college, I wanted to be a movie director. That's what I wanted to be.

In fact, there. There exists a whole slew of terrible movies that I made when I was younger, and I was pretty sure what path my life was going to take me on.

I remember telling the guy who asked me to be an intern, his name is Danny, and he said, would you be interested in interning with the church? I said,

sure, as long as you understand that I am never going to do ministry full time because I want to do something that makes money.

And I just remember that very distinctly. But then, yeah, God just got a hold of my life. And I've worked over 30, 40 different jobs. I delivered packages for UPS.

I used to this will date myself. I used to sell Internet at Circuit City, so.

So I did all these different jobs, and ministry was the only thing that I felt compelled to come back to. And so, yeah, there were just moments where I get welcomed into the intimacy of people's lives or people will confide something in me.

And I just.

Yeah, I'm just so grateful that God had that for me, because if I left my own devices, I would have Done something very different, maybe more profitable, but.

But profitable is. You could define that in a lot of different ways.

Jan: Exactly. Exactly right. The riches of Christ.

Kellen: Yeah.

Jan: What do you see in kids?

I'm sure you see a lot of the same things as you experienced when you were a kid. What kind of. What are some of the challenges that you're seeing with kids today?

Kellen: It is different today.

I think there is an underlying notion from some people of a certain generation that think, well, kids are kids like they are, but you don't understand.

The challenges they're facing are just so vastly different.

The proliferation of the Internet and social media, I know it sounds.

I sound like I'm 100 years old when I say it, but the truth is these kids are getting bullied sometimes by people who live on the other side of the world over nothing.

And they are so hyper conscious of how they are perceived by complete strangers. And it adds an immense amount of stress to them. In addition to that, I mean, they just have access to things we just didn't have access to growing up.

I mean, when I was a kid, if you wanted to look at dirty pictures, you have to know a kid down the street that sell you his dad's magazines. Now it's just not the case.

And so they're just being bombarded with so much nonsense, and it's really, really tough for a lot of them.

Yeah. And I think what happens with some of that, too, is they've lost some of the ability to connect with people because they're. They can be so focused and glued to their screens,

they forgot what it's like just to engage with the people around them. And that's not all kids. Most of the kids I know are really wonderful and great at that.

But I do think that the generation as a whole is suffering from a loneliness epidemic that spawns from building communities or connecting with communities that are not based off of where they live or who they go to school with.

It's these niche communities that they're finding online. And I think it's making some kids really lonely and less likely to connect with people.

So I also think that there's a lot of stuff that's happening in the media right now that is very negative towards Christianity. And so the church is no longer the safe place it used to be.

It's seen as a place full of hypocrites and, depending on who you ask, pedophiles. And they just have a lot of really negative ideas of the church. And so I think it's hard for them to Build community there too.

And so forming a relationship with Christ is not as easy as I think it used to be when I was younger.

Jan: And throw in gender identity.

Kellen: Oh, man, that is. Yeah, it is a huge thing. I think it's a very clever tactic of the enemy, for sure, because he sees that we were created in God's image, and so he's now going after the literal image that God created us in.

You know, if I've got kids that come to my groups and they're presenting as something other, you know,

it doesn't. Doesn't faze me in the slightest. I'll usually just go up to them and say, well, you know, what is your preferred name? And I'll just call them by that.

Because my assumption is that those kids who come, they don't have a relationship with Christ.

And the worst thing I could do is alienate them from step one is to make them feel like the church is a hostile place where they're going to be judged.

So my goal is to try to get to know them, to try to see past, maybe what they present,

try to see them as people and then get them to a point where they don't place their identity in anything other than Jesus.

And I think when that happens,

I think people are prone to find security,

they're prone to find comfort, and they're prone to see themselves the way that God sees them, which is who he created them to be.

Jan: But that takes,

you know,

you and your role, but it really takes each of us to look into the eyes of somebody else and just see. I'm not going to see all this other stuff.

I'm just going to see you. I'm going to see you. And you can tell me about you as much as you want to tell me so that, you know, as much as you want to let me in and whatever.

And I'm going to be okay with whatever that is. I'm going to move forward with you. We'll walk this walk together until we can really get to the point. I think it's part of the earning your right to be heard.

Kellen: Yeah, that's. Yeah, it's a good young life motto.

I think that some people get daunted when they think of working with kids, but I'll be honest, they are phenomenally simple. All kids want is they just want someone to see them and love them.

That's it. It's. And I, they all the other stuff that they present. I've had so many kids that have tried to test me,

who have tried to throw up barriers to see how I would react. They've been kind to me or they said mean things to me, and it doesn't. Been doing this long enough that it doesn't bother me.

When I was younger, I might have responded in kind because I was less mature then.

But now when I see kids doing that, what I really see is a broken kid throwing up a defense mechanism because they're terrified of being vulnerable and letting somebody in.

And so, man, I. When I see that, I just think, okay, cool, just tell me. Then I just kind of let it skate off of me. I don't really let it bother me.

And I've been surprised.

Been surprised at how easy it is just to navigate past that stuff and just to try to actually listen to them. I had a. A girl in my youth group, this was in Medford, who started telling me some.

She. She came and she was really trying to bully me and say a lot of mean things to me, and I just kind of laughed it off because I don't.

I don't care.

And after a while, when she realized that it wasn't going to work, then she started being vulnerable and honest with me. And I remember she. We were in the youth room, and this had been a couple months after she had come.

She goes, I want to tell you something, but you got to promise not to tell anybody. And I said, no, I won't do that, because there could be things that you tell me that I can't keep a secret.

That threw her for a loop. But eventually she opened up to me and she talked to me about how she'd been the victim of sexual abuse.

And we did have to call CPS and sit down with. With the authorities. But I think.

I think what happened was after months of kind of testing the waters to see can I push them away, Could I be safe?

Jan: Could you be safe enough?

Kellen: Yeah. And realizing that, yeah, it's not going to phase me,

then she felt like she could actually tell me something really serious. And I was really grateful that she did. So, like I said, yeah, kids are just. They really are simple.

They just want someone who sees them, who loves them. That's.

I think that's adults, too, but it's especially true of kids.

Jan: Yeah, no, no, totally. And those would be defining moments for them years later when they're telling their testimony and they say, there was this one guy that was leading us in youth group.

You know, this Kellen. I think his name was Kellen.

Kellen: No.

Jan: That made a difference in my life.

Kellen: Yeah.

Jan: You know, I feel.

Kellen: Yeah. Grateful. To be part of that.

Jan: I kind of think that this is my picture.

Who knows?

Because it's probably not totally scriptural.

But I think that when there was,

you know, we have the sponsor kids in Guatemala, and so when we visit different communities or something, so they put down this whole,

what they call an alfambra, which is pine needles and flowers and whatever. It's like a. It's like a carpet going into their community for you with all kinds of balloons, all these things, confetti and all this stuff, you know, and all of the mothers are on each side and they're clapping and they,

you know, are just grinning ear to ear that you're there. They're just like, so excited.

That's what I think heaven's going to be like.

But those people are going to be those people that you've had an effect on.

Kellen: Yeah.

Jan: You know, besides your family, relatives, whatever. This is my.

It's like, you know, God's going to be at the end. Jesus is going to be going, yep, that's my guy, you know,

that's my girl, you know, and they're all going to be going,

you're here, you're here. I'm so glad you're here finally.

Kellen: You know, that's the. That's the wonderful thing about ministries sometimes too, is that, you know, for some of these kids,

they come and go and, I don't know, I have no idea if anything I say makes a difference or a dent.

You know, maybe they hear a Bible story or maybe they've just been, you know, they're on their phone the whole time. I don't know. But I am confident that heaven is going to be chock full of people that we thought that they barely remembered us or they had a very minimal encounter with that we come to find out,

had a really profound moment with, I think about, for me, when I was a kid, I was in.

I think I was a freshman and I went to Arkansas to do political campaigning through this Christian organization. It was very strange.

And I still remember the guy's name was Jay Dickey and he's running for the House of Representatives in Little Rock, Arkansas. So. And the guy who,

who was running the trip, his name was Ned Ryan. His dad was actually Jim Ryan, who was an Olympic athlete. And so Ned Ryan was. He was kind of our point person.

And I was from California, so I was immediately like a mini celebrity with the people from Arkansas. In fact, they just called me California.

Jan: They probably just already knew you were going to be a film director. And that's where that.

Kellen: Yeah, they truthfully, they kept asking, which celebrities do you live next to? Like, none. California's huge.

But so what happened was, as a result of me just being that some kids really glommed onto me, and for some reason, there's, like, one kid that just hated me instantly.

I don't know why.

So I came back to our cabin one night, and he's in my bunk in my sleeping bag with this big grin on his face. And I'm looking at him thinking, what's happening?

Well, turns out he jumped in my sleeping bag buck naked.

And so he's doing this to sort of mess with me.

And so I thought, yeah, I'm going to get even on him. This. This is, you know, fight fire with fire. So I went to the bathroom and I grabbed his toothbrush and I scrubbed the inside of all the toilets, and I put his toothbrush back.

And so that night, pro tip.

Jan: That's way worse.

Kellen: Oh, yeah, it is. So, pro tip, if there's. You ever. If there's ever a crowd watching you brush your teeth, don't. Don't do it.

So everyone's kind of watching. He picks up his toothbrush, and as soon as he brushes teeth, everyone starts going wild.

And when he found out what had happened, well, he started crying. And I. And the difference was,

for no reason, on my own, the kids liked me, but they didn't really like him. So what. What he had done to me actually rallied kids against him. So when I did that to him, I was kind of seen as the hero.

Housing is the bad guy. And I hadn't. I just hadn't thought through all these things.

So I still remember Ned Ryan pulls me aside,

you know, and he has. He and I have this very serious talk. And he said, you know, Kellen, whether or not you realize it, people look up to you to be a leader.

It's up to you to be. To decide what type of leader you want to be. And it was a very brief but profound conversation that. That even at that point in my life, started shaping me and making me think about the type of person God wanted me to be.

So I'm fairly convinced that. That Ned doesn't even really remember that conversation. But I am sure that when I get to heaven, he's someone I want to find and say, just so you know, those words made a huge difference for me.

Jan: So true. Whew. Wow. That'd be like a gut punch.

Kellen: It was.

And he did some. It was so unique what he did, because instead of just yelling at me or pouring scorn on me. Instead, he used this as an opportunity to lift me up.

And I will never forget his. Just the careful way that he managed that. Instead of punishing me, he just.

He. He put a higher calling on me. I thought, oh, dang. All right, well, now I want to live up to that expectation. All right, here. I thought it was a stupid prank, and then God was like, no, actually, you need to learn a serious lesson.

Jan: Like, okay, but that's also truth that you can speak into your kids. Yeah, there have been the same.

Kellen: Yeah, there have definitely been moments where I've been fortunate enough to. To have that example be at the forefront of my mind. When I see a kid do something, and I think, okay,

I can tear them down and I can show them the error of their ways, or I can do to this kid what was done to me and use this as an opportunity to help lift them up.

And hopefully it's what I do.

Jan: Yeah. Yeah. Comes with a little maturity, doesn't it? Yeah, yeah.

Kellen: I've been doing ministry in one form or another for a little over 18 years at this point, so.

Jan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. What's a. What's a typical youth night look like? Oh, I mean, typical.

Kellen: Yeah,

Typical youth. So, yeah, typically, youth night, our youth group, we do dinner, and that's a great opportunity just to sit and talk with kids.

And then we usually play some sort of a game.

Then we do.

Jan: Because you only have a few games.

Kellen: Yeah, yeah. Only that I was told when I started in youth ministry, you have to have the capacity to either lead games or lead worship, so I chose games.

So I'll run a game for kids and usually jump in there and play myself. And then we'll do a teaching, which on our Sunday nights, which is our youth nights, will range about 15, 20 minutes,

and then they go into small group for the majority of the time. Our Sunday morning program is a little more like Sunday school, and I usually teach about 30 to 40 minutes, just kind of depending on that.

So, yeah, a little bit of a different feel. I feel like Sunday mornings are a good opportunity for those who are already disciples to grow deeper.

And our youth nights are an opportunity for maybe someone who's less familiar with the gospel to come and get a little bit of Jesus to hopefully take that next step.

Jan: Do you feel like you've got places where you can train some of the youth to be leaders in, you know?

Kellen: Yeah, we're getting there. I think it just depends.

I think I'm okay. I think I'm good at Identifying potential leaders. And so usually I kind of take my time getting to the rascally ones. Yeah, honestly. Yeah. No, not.

Not always then, but sometimes, yeah,

you know, they. They've done research now and they've shown it takes on average 12 to 18 months for most kids to trust an adult that they don't know. So I.

A lot of what I do at the beginning is just putting in that groundwork, getting to know them, spending time with them, trying to connect with them outside of church.

So I go to their baseball games, I go to, you know, their track meets, whatever.

And then once I get to know them, I think the best way to raise up leaders is a personal invitation. And that's what Jesus did. Right. He went around and, you know, he called individuals.

And so I try to model that a little bit. And if I've got a student here or there that I think has a capacity to step more into leadership, follow a conversation with them and say, hey, I think you can.

Should be doing more. So I've gotten a couple students who have shown a phenomenal aptitude and done some really cool things as a result of that.

Jan: Yeah, yeah. And just seeing, you know, speaking into their life.

Kellen: Yeah.

Jan: What is.

Cause some kids don't have anybody in their life that's speaking any sort of love to them at all, you know, in any capacity. You know, I mean, they go to school and they're a great child.

Nobody sees them, nobody talks to them. No does any, you know, whatever. They just. Oh, he's a good kid, but he just like, you know, so it's like. Yeah, yeah,

yeah. Speaking that truth.

So you've been doing a little studying lately?

Kellen: Yeah, well, I. I like being a.

Jan: Learner and lifetime learner.

Kellen: Lifetime learner. Yeah.

So we'll see. Like I said, my. My time in ministry, I've done kids,

youth,

young adults, and I was a lead pastor for about two years. And so I've really enjoyed wearing a bunch of different hats and doing a bunch of different ministry. And so I don't know where God will call me next, but I figure learning as much as I can about His Word can't hurt,

no matter where he sends me.

Jan: So, like, theology, what. What kind of things you're taking?

Kellen: Yeah, so I'm. I'm struggling through Greek.

I. I'm not a languages guy. Some people gravitate towards it. I.

I would rather do anything else, but I have found it really helpful. I find I kind of catch myself incorporating some Greek phrases even when I'm teaching my. My students,

because There is a genuine benefit for knowing these things. And so it's definitely deep in my study.

Yeah, I'm taking some theology classes, history of the church.

So I'm currently working on a second master's degree. So got one down and figured, you know, so much fun the first time around, might as well go again.

Jan: Yeah, keep going, keep going.

Let's see. Do a little.

What would be something you might say to parents about how they approach their.

Sharing their faith with their kids or encouraging them in it or whatever their, their walk?

Kellen: Yeah, I mean, the most faith growth happens in the home. I think about the, the amount of time that I have with students,

if students come to all of the things that, that we do. You know, we've got a Sunday morning program, a Sunday night program, and often a midweek program.

But I mean, that is a very finite amount of time versus the amount of time that kids are with their families.

So for families to be intentional in building their students faith journey and talking with them about these things is a big paramount importance,

I think. You know, I mentioned going to this church and not really feeling like I connected. I think the reason I have such a strong faith is a testament to my parents.

And I mean, both of them were very sincere about who Jesus was,

who he meant to them, who they wanted me to be, how God saw me. And so really the church is supplementary in that respect.

We are, we want to come alongside parents, we want to come alongside families, but we're not doing the heavy liftings.

The parents are. And if the church is doing the heavy lifting, well, that's because it's one of those families that, that is going through something. But hopefully ideally it's parents, grandparents, family members that are doing most of the work.

And then the church exists for them to explore maybe a few other avenues or maybe talk to somebody that knows maybe just a little bit more than mom and dad about a specific issue.

But man, I.

For parents, be intentional about the conversations you have. Be intentional. Oh my gosh. About praying with your kids.

One of the best things parents can do is model healthy prayer and not just praying before meals, but praying when it comes to significant family events. Praying for major things.

My parents prayed for me when I went off to college, when I moved away from California. I mean, those are powerful moments. So parents, pray with your kids and talk with them.

I think one of the best. Another good thing that parents can do is make sure that their students feel like nothing is taboo, that they can talk and be honest.

Which means if a kid comes to A parent and they say, you know, Mom, I, I,

I'm wrestling with gender identity. The worst thing you could do is freak out or shame them or put them down. The best thing you could do is try to approach it with love and understanding.

Because if you open those doors, then the kid is going to feel comfortable more and more often talking about some of these really big, heavy things. If you slam that door shut or if you make them feel like a pariah or you make them feel like they're gross or weird or unwanted,

they will bottle up instantly.

And that door, once shut, is very difficult to open.

Another thing, too, part of just being a wise parent is know what your kids are looking at when it comes to their phones and their computers. I, I have had several instances of parents who have endeavoring to be good parents, have investigated what their kids online activity was and saved a couple kids from absolute disasters.

So be proactive with that stuff. It's real.

Know the dangers, know what's going on,

and set up safeguards.

Jan: Yeah.

Kellen: I think that is so important for parents to set up healthy safeguards for their kids.

Jan: Yeah, yeah. Kellen, thank you so much.

Kellen: Yeah, absolutely.

Jan: This has been, yeah, enriching. Delightful. Good advice.

Kellen: I love. And, you know, I'll just say one more thing as a bit of encouragement for anybody listening.

Again, I love youth ministry, and I have grown immensely as a result of my time in there. And I think one of the best things the church can do is invest in the next generation.

So if anybody's listening and thinking about getting involved in youth ministry, first off, someone who's been doing youth ministry for a long time, if I ever have a good qualified person who comes up and says, I'd like to help a lot with youth, I'm like, in tears.

I'm like, yes,

please. Thank you. So that would be one encouragement. But just I think for people to understand,

you don't have to have a degree in theology. You don't have to have all the answers.

All that you need is to love God. Love, love kids. And it really helps if you're teachable.

And that's it.

Jan: I think God could work with that.

Kellen: I think he can.

Jan: Yeah. Thanks.

Kellen: All right. Well, thank you, Jen.