Just Talkin' About Jesus
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Just Talkin' About Jesus
Who Do YOU Say Jesus is? with Ruth Cowles
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In this episode of Just Talking About Jesus, host Jan Johnson sits down with Ruth Cowles to explore what it means to truly know Jesus—not just attend church. Both Jan and Ruth grew up in strong Christian homes, but their faith deepened through personal encounters with Christ. Ruth shares how in-depth Bible studies helped her uncover the true character of Jesus in the Gospels, challenging traditional views and encouraging a deeper spiritual relationship.
This honest conversation also addresses the emotional struggles of watching family members walk away from Christianity, touching on faith deconstruction, doubt, and the unique challenges within Christian families. Whether you're new to faith, wrestling with your beliefs, or seeking to strengthen your relationship with Jesus, this episode offers encouragement, truth, and hope.
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[00:02] Jan: Welcome to Just Talking About Jesus.
[00:06] I'm Jan Johnson, a seasoned believer who loves relationships and, you know, just talking. Welcome, my friends, to the next episode of Just Talking About Jesus. I have my friend Ruth Cowles back again because she's got so many great stories and things.
[00:22] Ruth Cowles: Thank you, Jan.
[00:24] Jan: Today we're gonna just talk about Jesus.
[00:27] Ruth Cowles: I love it. Yes. Great.
[00:31] Jan: I, you know, I really think about even when. When you were young, Ruth, you grew up in a real solid Christian home.
[00:41] Ruth Cowles: It's true.
[00:42] Jan: So you were around that all the time and. And kind of had that sense of who he was, you know, but.
[00:49] And I did. I grew up in a church family.
[00:55] My dad played church.
[00:58] Ruth Cowles: Okay.
[00:59] Jan: Parents eventually divorced,
[01:01] but my mom was really, really devoted Christian,
[01:05] really neat role model. And just even in the books that she read or the things she'd share, and even as a single parent, it was. It was good. But I'm thinking about what was my view,
[01:17] I mean, of Jesus to begin with. When I was up until even late high school or college, I think I always just,
[01:28] yeah, I knew there's God,
[01:30] and I knew that he had a son, Jesus, but I didn't know any. I. If I had a relationship, I probably felt closer to God than I did Jesus, you know, and then there was the Holy Ghost, whatever that was.
[01:44] I don't know. Right.
[01:48] So it really, really wasn't until,
[01:50] you know, even going to church every week and going to youth group and whatever. It really was not until after I graduated from college and I was working in a preschool, and this gal that worked with me asked me if I wanted to go to her prayer meeting.
[02:06] And I thought,
[02:07] okay, yeah, sure, why not? Whatever. Well, it was a Catholic charismatic prayer meeting.
[02:13] Ruth Cowles: Okay.
[02:15] Jan: And I go in there and they're praising God and speaking in tongues and doing,
[02:20] you know, whatever.
[02:21] But it was really the first time I heard the gospel message.
[02:24] Ruth Cowles: Oh, wow.
[02:25] Jan: And to really know,
[02:27] to have sense, a sense that Jesus was a real person who,
[02:33] you know, because of me,
[02:37] died on the cross, you know, it's the reality of that. And that had never, ever struck me before, you know, and that I had a responsibility to ask for forgiveness.
[02:47] It was just a whole different level,
[02:50] just going to church.
[02:52] Ruth Cowles: Sure.
[02:53] Jan: You know, I always prayed and had an idea. You know, my grandma gave me a Bible, but I think I got through the first book of Genesis.
[03:01] Ruth Cowles: There you go. You gave it a good shot, right? As a kid, you gave it a good shot.
[03:06] Jan: Tried in that King James Version. But anyway, yeah. And so you do think about, who do you Say I am. Who is Jesus?
[03:16] Ruth Cowles: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
[03:18] Jan: Yeah, yeah.
[03:20] Ruth Cowles: You know, I teach these Bible studies, and I've done that for years and years and years. That's like, my love. Okay. I'm a nurse by training,
[03:27] and I did nursing for the time when I needed to be doing nursing as a job.
[03:32] But what I love to do is teach Bible.
[03:34] I don't know. That's what I did in Africa. And I've for years just taught Bible. Well, since retiring from my job on church staff,
[03:44] I started teaching these Bible studies in different communities here where I live.
[03:49] And one of the things that I decided. I love talking about the Lord, right?
[03:53] And so you can never go wrong studying about Jesus, Right?
[03:56] And that's one thing I love about your podcast. I love that it's called Just Talking about Jesus. I think I'm gonna love this.
[04:02] Jan: They told me to name it.
[04:04] Ruth Cowles: I think that's wonderful.
[04:07] Jan: I mean, what do you want? Okay, you want me to do this? But I need a name here. Come on.
[04:13] Ruth Cowles: It's wonderful. It's a beautiful name.
[04:16] But this past year. Year or so ago,
[04:19] I decided I would.
[04:21] I would teach a class where we would look at what different people in the gospels said about Jesus. And, you know, it's like everybody had an opinion, right? Wherever Jesus went, everybody had an opinion about him, who he was.
[04:33] And there were those, of course, who followed him because they believed his teaching, and they followed him because they wanted to hear more. Then there were those who were very hostile toward him,
[04:43] and they followed him to see if they could catch him in doing something, right?
[04:47] And then, of course, there were those who followed him because they wanted to be entertained, because he was doing these marvelous things, right?
[04:56] And then there were those who followed him because they wanted to get something out of him,
[05:01] right? They wanted him to do something for them. And so you have these. These crowds of mixed people who are there for mixed reasons.
[05:11] And it's very similar to today. I believe. I believe there are people now sitting around in churches, some of whom are there because they really want to hear what the Bible has to say about Jesus because they want to know him.
[05:24] And then there are people who go because they want that. Some entertainment,
[05:28] or they want to see something spectacular,
[05:30] you know, and then there's a lot of hostility directed toward Christians in the world today. All you have to do is look at Persecuted Church, you know, Voice of the Martyrs, and see there's a lot of hostility directed toward believers.
[05:44] And so I wrote a study,
[05:46] and we went through. We went through the different groups of people in the gospels. So it's centered on just Matthew, Mark, Luke and John looking at what different groups of people said about Jesus.
[06:01] And I put the scripture right in the book so you can like sit in a coffee shop and, and read the scripture and, and, and,
[06:09] and then answer the questions ultimately to come to the decision,
[06:13] well, who do you say he is?
[06:15] And you know, it's, it's really honing in on the different. In fact, I start out talking about the angels in the Bible.
[06:23] What do the angels say about him?
[06:26] I look at what the demons say about him?
[06:29] What does God the Father say about him as we look at the Gospels and what does Jesus say about himself?
[06:39] And then okay, now what about you? What do you say about him? And even the very last part, it's a three part study and in the third part of the study it's what do you say about him?
[06:50] And it looks at three important questions.
[06:53] One question was Herod's question.
[06:56] And you know, Herod's question was who is this man?
[06:59] You know,
[07:01] and then when Jesus is before Pilate, of course,
[07:04] Pilate's question is what shall I do with Jesus, who's called the Christ,
[07:08] right.
[07:09] So what shall I do with them? And then Jesus comes up with this question,
[07:13] you know,
[07:14] Jesus asked his disciples, what about you? Who do you say that I am?
[07:18] Jan: Yeah.
[07:19] Ruth Cowles: And so that's the whole premise of the book to come to a conclusion.
[07:23] This is what others said. All right,
[07:26] but now what about me?
[07:28] What do I say?
[07:29] Does it bring me to belief or what does it do?
[07:33] Jan: Have you started teaching it yet?
[07:35] Ruth Cowles: I did teach it and then I wrote it after I taught it.
[07:38] I wrote the study just with my own study. I mean I did my own study notes and everything. I did put it in this book form but I, I,
[07:47] this is how I teach.
[07:48] I'll write my study notes all out and everything and I don't always put em into a book. Right.
[07:54] So I teach the class and it took a while because like it's, it's quite a, you know, going through all the gospels, looking at all the different,
[08:02] Yeah, I don't tell every story that's in the Gospels,
[08:05] but I'm, I'm just looking at,
[08:07] you know, the spectators and those who,
[08:10] Jesus miracles that Jesus did for them or those that had conflicting opinions or those that were openly hostile toward him, you know, and, and then like what did Jesus say about like his own authority and where he came from and who he said he was and what did he say about his suffering and,
[08:28] and what did he say about his resurrection and his departure and his return?
[08:32] What did he say about those things? So we studied all of those.
[08:35] And then.
[08:37] And then I decided, well, and the. The people that the. The ladies in the Bible study, they seem to really appreciate looking at it from those directions.
[08:46] Jan: Yeah.
[08:47] Ruth Cowles: And so I thought over the years, I've taught a lot of Bible studies, I've written a lot of Bible studies, and I've never really packaged them for anyone else to use.
[08:57] Like, I teach them, they're one and done, and they're on the shelf. I have a whole shelf full of Bible studies, Right.
[09:03] And I thought, you know,
[09:06] why can't I put this in the hands of someone else who might want to do it on their own, or maybe with a couple friends around the kitchen table or maybe in a small group or something?
[09:16] And so it's a little different when you're writing it for someone else to do than when you're teaching it for you to be there.
[09:24] You know how that is.
[09:25] So I've had a couple groups that have used it after I. I published it,
[09:30] and it's the latest book. I just, you know, that I did. And so right now I'm working on a companion piece that's just.
[09:38] Just gonna cover the iambs in the Book of John,
[09:41] you know, on the Bread of Life, you know, Light of the World, the Good shepherd, those. The Iams there that can be used separately where it digs deeper into those topics.
[09:51] Because in this book, there was so much content already that I didn't dig down into each of those.
[09:58] I mentioned them. I say that Jesus said, I am the Good shepherd, you know,
[10:02] but now I'm writing a more deeper one that you can stand alone. It can be a standalone study, or it can go along,
[10:10] you know, if you want it to.
[10:12] I love doing that. And what did you see?
[10:16] Jan: Heard some of your members, Revelations of things. What kind of things were like, aha.
[10:22] Ruth Cowles: Moments, oh, my goodness,
[10:25] when somebody did ask me about,
[10:27] you know, why. Why did people.
[10:29] All these people followed him and they all heard the same thing, so why didn't they all believe?
[10:34] Why? Why different opinions? And it's just like in the world today, you know, it's just like, why do we do that? Why do we have crowds today? Where people look at things from different perspective depending on what's going on in their own heart or their own life or.
[10:48] Or, you know, are they fertile soil or what are. What kind of soil are they? You know, if you use the parable.
[10:52] Jan: Within your own family, look at your siblings. And they're, you know, are not, they're all raised the same way and they do not turn out the same way.
[11:00] Exactly.
[11:01] Ruth Cowles: And now, to be, to be perfectly frank about that,
[11:05] I have two brothers.
[11:07] My oldest brother's a pastor. He's been in the pastorate for years.
[11:10] My second brother was a missionary. They're missionaries 25 years.
[11:14] And he has walked away from his faith now.
[11:18] And I mean, he's 18 months older than I am.
[11:22] And it's devastating to think that he,
[11:28] you know,
[11:30] that he's walked away from the faith, he's walked away from the Lord. And I'm like, I don't get that.
[11:34] He's followed this whole, he's in this whole deconstructive movement that's going on in the world today. You may have be familiar with that terminology. And there's many people that have been in ministry in various, whether clergy or minister or missionaries or whatever who are now rejecting the faith they claimed to have believed before.
[11:56] And they're throwing out the authority of scripture.
[11:59] They don't believe in hell, don't hardly believe in heaven,
[12:03] you know, and it's.
[12:05] Jan: I, I almost scary, isn't it?
[12:08] Ruth Cowles: I've cried for.
[12:10] I finally can sing in church again without crying.
[12:14] But,
[12:14] but you know, sometimes,
[12:17] sometimes I still cry in church.
[12:19] But I think,
[12:21] was it never real in your heart who Jesus is?
[12:26] You know, because I believe, you know, Jesus said, I give unto you eternal life and you'll never perish.
[12:31] And I think a true follower of Jesus Christ, truly born again,
[12:37] one who knows Jesus as their Lord and Savior, they're not going to walk away from him now. They might rebel.
[12:44] You know, a child can rebel,
[12:46] but your child, if you have blood relationship with your child,
[12:50] they might go astray. They might rebel against you for a time, but they don't break relationship. Or may they. They might think they are, but they're still related to you.
[12:58] Sorry. You know, like it or not,
[13:00] you're still related. Right.
[13:03] And so a true child of God who's in relationship with God the Father,
[13:09] a true child of God, they might break fellowship because sin breaks fellowship, but sin doesn't break relationship.
[13:15] Jan: Yeah.
[13:17] Ruth Cowles: So I, I for a long time thought, well, maybe he's just wandering, you know, but they're going further and further down that path. Yeah. Away from God.
[13:31] Jan: It's grieving, isn't it?
[13:33] Ruth Cowles: Oh, it is. Yeah, it is.
[13:36] Jan: Yeah.
[13:36] Ruth Cowles: Yeah.
[13:37] And I don't know, maybe part of my writing comes out of that. Maybe part of it is because I want so badly For. For them. For those people who are walking away to reconsider who really is Jesus?
[13:50] Who is he?
[13:51] Is he who he said he was? And here's the other thing. And a lot of people say this. They admire Jesus.
[13:58] They admire his exemplary life.
[13:59] Jan: He was a good person.
[14:01] Ruth Cowles: Yes. They admire all the good things he did.
[14:04] They admire that. But see, here's the thing.
[14:06] You can't say you admire somebody and then not believe what they say,
[14:12] because if you don't believe what they say,
[14:15] then what you are saying is that they're lying.
[14:18] So if you're saying they lived an exemplary life,
[14:22] were they a liar?
[14:24] Jan: Yeah.
[14:26] Ruth Cowles: You know, so don't give me that jargon. And a lot of people do. They. They have this idea that,
[14:31] well, Jesus was so good. Oh, never mind the fact that he said he was God. I mean, let's forget that,
[14:36] you know, let's forget the fact that he said, I am the way, the truth and the life, and no one comes to the Father except by me.
[14:41] We don't buy that.
[14:43] But, you know, he was good and he did all these helpful things.
[14:48] You know, he was a humanitarian, you know, and he cared for the poor.
[14:52] Jan: But then. Yeah, they're not connecting that. That good person is not just a historical figure.
[14:59] Ruth Cowles: Exactly, exactly.
[15:01] Jan: True person that is in. Can be in your life every single day.
[15:07] Ruth Cowles: Yes.
[15:08] And. And his words, I mean,
[15:10] what he did. Yes. Exemplary life. He lived a perfect life.
[15:13] You know, no one could do that. Right. Only Jesus did that. He lived a perfect life. He sacrificed himself.
[15:19] Right.
[15:20] For the benefit of us,
[15:22] so that we could have reconciliation between us and God.
[15:26] And he did that. And. Yes,
[15:29] that. But they don't believe that part. But anyway, he did that. And that's miraculous. He did all those miracles too. He healed all those people,
[15:36] did all that, those many good things.
[15:39] But you can't just see what he did. You have to also hear what he said.
[15:43] And then you need to accept and believe what he said.
[15:47] Because if you don't believe what he said,
[15:49] doesn't matter what good he did.
[15:51] I mean, does it?
[15:52] Jan: Yeah. Yeah.
[15:54] Ruth Cowles: So I don't know.
[15:56] I want people to really realize. And take a second look.
[16:00] Take a look again.
[16:01] And when you look again at who Jesus,
[16:05] what Jesus did,
[16:06] also look at what he said and then see. Okay, so when he talks about heaven. Oh, he talks about heaven and hell like they're real places.
[16:15] Oh,
[16:16] maybe they exist.
[16:17] Jan: Maybe.
[16:18] Ruth Cowles: Maybe he talks about these things in the Old Testament that you say are just myths and fables, but he talks about them as if they're real.
[16:27] Maybe they're real.
[16:31] Ruth Cowles: You see what I'm saying?
[16:33] Jan: Do you know who Constance Hastings is?
[16:35] Ruth Cowles: I do not.
[16:36] Jan: She has a book called the Trouble with Jesus.
[16:39] Ruth Cowles: Okay.
[16:39] Jan: So she kind of takes the devil's advocate on one side. Well, how can he be this, he's doing this or that or whatever like that. And you actually believe that, you know, and then goes into it.
[16:50] But yeah, yeah, I did an interview with her and. Okay, interesting.
[16:55] Ruth Cowles: I'll have to go back and listen to it. Yes, constant tastings. I'll have to write it down.
[17:00] Jan: Yeah,
[17:01] same idea.
[17:02] My brother in law died last week and I'm sorry. He had a year pancreatic cancer and going through and all this kind of stuff, you know. But he was devout atheist and it just broke my heart each day just going like,
[17:22] can't you just like.
[17:24] And there had been an incident a number of years ago where there'd been an accidental email, you know, and way back when there were chain letters and whatever, my sister in law ended up somehow sending one to my sister and you know, and she just like cut her out,
[17:44] cut everybody out. And so now at this point it was kind of like,
[17:48] okay, God, I am willing to say something, but do you want me to? And I just never felt like I could.
[17:54] I didn't have that full assurance that because I didn't want to break that relationship, we had relationship, you know, and I didn't want to break that,
[18:03] but it's like, oh, can't you just let me just. But I just never felt that, you know, so we just kept praying, all of us, you know, praying for him that, you know, because God can do whatever he's going to do to an individual person,
[18:17] you know too I'm believing that way, that, that.
[18:23] Ruth Cowles: But you know, sometimes God brings somebody else along.
[18:27] Sometimes family won't hear it from family. Sometimes it takes somebody that's maybe a total stranger or another person that you would never think that person says something that gets their attention.
[18:39] And sometimes I just pray that God will bring somebody along because in my brother's case, for example,
[18:45] he knows the Bible. He probably knows the Bible better than I do.
[18:48] And he probably knows more scripture. I mean he has preached it, he has prayed with people, he has, you know,
[18:53] there's not anything in the Bible he hasn't read.
[18:56] So me quoting the Bible verse to him,
[18:59] it's not new information.
[19:00] In fact, I wrote an Easter book during COVID and I sent them to my family members and,
[19:06] and he said, I got your book. He said. He goes, I read it. I read every word. And I gave him the book about Mom. You know, all that,
[19:13] because that's what I do with family.
[19:15] And he said, I read the Easter book.
[19:18] And he said, I read it all, and there was no new information in there.
[19:24] I said, well, the story hasn't.
[19:25] Jan: Can't add to it.
[19:27] Ruth Cowles: I said, the story hasn't changed over the years.
[19:31] It's the same information,
[19:33] but it's like, does it penetrate the heart of the person? That's the thing.
[19:39] And so in your. In your case, with your family member, I mean, we just have to trust the Lord with,
[19:45] you know, with our family members that choose not to follow him, you know,
[19:52] and. And if God opens an opportunity, then we need to step into it. But he doesn't always.
[19:56] It's not always an opportunity for us.
[19:59] Sometimes someone else or if he knows. If he already knows.
[20:03] He already knows the truth, if the truth has already been revealed to him either through something in the past or through something he's read or heard on the radio or whatever,
[20:12] then he's heard it. It's not like he's never heard the message,
[20:16] you know? Yeah,
[20:18] I don't know if it helped. I'm just.
[20:19] Jan: Yeah, but those are the things, you know, that you think about now.
[20:23] Ruth Cowles: Real.
[20:24] Jan: Real people living their real faith. Think about, you know, or like, does God only choose certain people? You know, does he only draw certain people to Himself?
[20:35] Ruth Cowles: It's tricky, isn't it? Because doesn't Scripture say it's not God's will that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance?
[20:42] So then there's. You're right. Then you're going down that path of, okay, does that mean that anybody who wants him can find Him? See, I believe that. I think that if a person is really seeking God, that God's going to reveal himself to them?
[20:54] Because doesn't it say. And I think it's in Jeremiah, I don't know the reference. I'm not good at references, but that you'll seek me and find me when you search for me with all your heart.
[21:03] And so if a person's actively seeking God,
[21:06] seeking to know God,
[21:08] God's gonna make a way for them to know Him.
[21:12] I honestly believe that. And so I also believe that there's gonna be people who choose not to seek him and to know Him. And God doesn't have to reveal himself to those people if they're not seeking after Him.
[21:26] So it's tricky.
[21:27] Jan: Well, there Is all of that, you know, to unbelievers, it's all foolishness.
[21:32] You know,
[21:33] sometimes I read things in the Bible, I think. Yeah. Kind of like I can see if you're thinking as not a believer.
[21:39] Ruth Cowles: Yes.
[21:40] Jan: You know, who accepts everything that's in there, you know, But I mean,
[21:44] a donkey that's going to talk, really. Okay.
[21:47] And you know, I mean, there's just so many things. Oh, yeah. In the belly of the whale.
[21:52] Yeah. I don't know. But you know, I mean,
[21:55] there's things that you look at him and you think, yeah, I can see why he just thinks a bunch of fairy tales and it's, you know,
[22:01] and a lot.
[22:01] Ruth Cowles: Of people feel like that. And, you know, I think if we could logically and scientifically answer all these questions, then there's no faith required.
[22:08] Jan: Right, right.
[22:10] Ruth Cowles: You know, the walk of faith means that there's going to be things we can't explain.
[22:14] Jan: But also pastors that just think they're a bunch of fairy tales too.
[22:19] Ruth Cowles: I know. And you know what, I'm sorry, but there's a bunch of pastors that I don't think are believers.
[22:23] Jan: Yeah.
[22:24] Ruth Cowles: You know, and because we're trying to use our own mind, which I think the finite mind of a human being.
[22:33] Jan: Cannot know, it's unfathomable.
[22:36] Ruth Cowles: There you go. That's good. That's a good word. Yeah. So. And then sometimes people say, well, you're just accepting it on blind faith. And I'm like, maybe so.
[22:46] Jan: Yep.
[22:47] Ruth Cowles: Blind faith. Because I'm the blind man and I've got faith in the one who's able to open the blind man's eyes.
[22:54] And he opened my eyes to his truth.
[22:57] Jan: So I mean, I just. If you really start thinking about why do you believe?
[23:04] I guess for me,
[23:06] my ultimate thing is my eternity where I'm going.
[23:12] But on my day to day, it's because I see him in so many things in my life, day after day after day, you know? Yes.
[23:20] Ruth Cowles: Yeah.
[23:21] Jan: And even that's why I love doing these interviews, you know,
[23:25] all these people, who's God to you? Where has he been? Where's your but God moment? What is, you know, where has he been? What do you think about this? You know, all of that,
[23:34] all of that, you know, just build you up and just says, oh gosh,
[23:38] sometimes God just plain zaps somebody and goes, oh, no, you, I want you. You know,
[23:45] when you're not even really seeking him, you know, or you go on a different path. That's happened a number of times.
[23:53] There's Not a one size fits all for,
[23:56] you know, I mean, there's one answer.
[23:58] There's one answer.
[23:59] Ruth Cowles: Right. But we're individuals. Right. And, and, and don't you think, like, doesn't knowing Jesus give you a tremendous amount of peace?
[24:10] Jan: Oh, absolutely, absolutely.
[24:12] Ruth Cowles: When you think about people who died and you think a believer who dies,
[24:18] dies at peace,
[24:20] they know where they're going.
[24:22] They have a deep peace now. It doesn't mean they don't have pain. They might still be. They might die in terrible pain. Right. But they have this peace that a non believer often doesn't have.
[24:33] Jan: Because a non believer doesn't have hope.
[24:36] Ruth Cowles: Right. That's right. And the world needs hope today, really?
[24:42] Jan: All the time. Yep, yep, yep. At any period of time, and especially now. Yeah, Yeah.
[24:51] Ruth Cowles: I mean, really. And, and I think Christians who. Who know Jesus. I say it that way because I don't think everybody that calls himself a Christian is a Christian who knows Jesus.
[25:01] Jan: Right.
[25:02] Ruth Cowles: But a Christian who knows Jesus.
[25:04] Jan: And I think that I was. That's. That was me growing up.
[25:06] Ruth Cowles: Exactly.
[25:07] Jan: Now I consider myself a Christian, but I did not know Jesus.
[25:11] Ruth Cowles: Yes, but you consider yourself a Christian probably because you weren't something else.
[25:15] Jan: Yeah, yeah.
[25:16] Ruth Cowles: You were not another of these religions, and you were living in Christian America, so you were a Christian. Right.
[25:23] Jan: Church all the time. And I, you know, I believed in God, and I, you know, you just didn't know, you know, that you didn't. Didn't know.
[25:31] Ruth Cowles: But when you knew, he got a hold of your heart, didn't he?
[25:34] Jan: Absolutely. Yeah.
[25:35] Ruth Cowles: Yeah. Well, praise God for that.
[25:37] Jan: I know now I can do this.
[25:40] Ruth Cowles: Podcast just talking about Jesus.
[25:42] Jan: I know, I know, right?
[25:44] Ruth Cowles: That's great.
[25:45] Jan: You know, I had the experience, I told you before about, you know, being at the prayer meeting there, but also I think the other real defining point was I was asked to be a counselor at a youth camp.
[25:59] Ruth Cowles: Okay.
[26:00] Jan: Another situation just coming into, like, here's the real deal, and here's what you need to do and where you are. And that was the one that really just broke me into.
[26:12] Yeah. Okay. Yes, yes, yes. I watch your way.
[26:18] Yeah,
[26:19] that's great.
[26:20] Ruth Cowles: You know, my parents were camp directors, and I was growing up at a. At a bi. They were camp directors at a Bible camp. And.
[26:26] And that played such a huge part in my life, too,
[26:29] being there at camp. It was just curious that you said that about being at camp.
[26:34] Jan: So that is an interesting thing, too. When I ask people kind of, what's your testimony? A lot of people, it's like, I didn't grow up going to church. My parents never went to church.
[26:44] I didn't even know what anything was or whatever about. Somebody took me to Sunday school or I went to awanas or I went to youth group or I went to, you know, VBS or something.
[26:54] Just like. And it just is. Is like, no. People need to know how important those ministries are.
[27:02] Ruth Cowles: Yeah, absolutely.
[27:04] Jan: They're seed planters, you know,
[27:06] for sure. You ever see that kid again for I don't know how long or something, and. And they may not be walking it through, but then as an adult or something else, it's like that was the seed that was planted, like.
[27:17] Oh, yeah,
[27:19] yeah.
[27:19] Ruth Cowles: When you were a kid, 8 years old or something, right? Yeah, absolutely.
[27:23] Jan: Yeah. Yeah. Well, any last words you want to share with our listeners?
[27:29] Ruth Cowles: Well, they can get in touch with me if they want through my website. I think you'll probably put that in the notes. Appreciate that.
[27:37] Thank you.
[27:38] Thank you. I appreciate it. Well, I just, you know,
[27:42] why did John Wright. The Gospel of John. He wrote it to bring us to belief. Right,
[27:47] right. That you may believe that Jesus is the son of God and that believing you might have life through his name. And so read the Gospels. That's my encouragement to people who want to know who Jesus really is.
[27:59] Start reading. Read the Gospels.
[28:01] Jan: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Thank you so much.
[28:04] Ruth Cowles: Thank you. Thanks for letting me talk.
[28:07] Jan: I appreciate it. About Jesus, about Jesus, talking about.
[28:11] Ruth Cowles: Anytime. Let me know.