God is Still Good-A Cancer Journey with Tom & Peggy Gillard

@RestStopDevotionas on Substack

In this heartfelt episode, Tom and Peggy Gillard share their compelling journey of faith, love, and resilience. 

Tom recounts his upbringing in a strict religious family, his rebellion by joining the Navy, and his eventual spiritual awakening aboard a submarine nicknamed the 'Devil Boat.' 

A life-changing event led him to a new understanding of faith, while Peggy talks about their meeting and the strength of their relationship over the years. 

As Tom now faces colorectal cancer, the couple reflects on their unwavering belief in God’s plan and the comfort their faith provides.

Together Forever

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Transcript

Jan: Welcome to Just Talking About Jesus. I'm Jan Johnson, a seasoned believer who loves relationships and, you know, just talking about Jesus.

Okay,

welcome, everybody. I have Peggy and Tom Gillard with me today, so welcome.

Tom Gillard: Thank you. Thank you for having us.

Jan: I know Tom through a writing group. Yes, yes. He writes some pretty humorous things on Substack. And just getting his message across in there with a little humor in between. And so it's been kind of fun to get to know you that way, too.

Tom Gillard: Yes.

Peggy Gillard: Yeah.

Jan: So we kind of talked before about maybe you coming on the show here. Give me a little bit of your testimony.

Tom Gillard: Okay. So I was raised in a real, real strict family. Strict, strict religion. And I got away from that by joining the Navy.

Jan: And I didn't just run away from home. You really went.

Tom Gillard: I did. I joined the nuclear Navy. And. Yeah, and I went off and did all things stupid.

Jan: And was that partly your age? Because everybody at that age.

Tom Gillard: Oh, yeah, yeah, it was. And. And plus, I was in rebellion. And so I was in submarine service and submarine service. Sometimes in those days, in the 70s, they would. I don't know what to say here.

Peggy Gillard: How much can you say?

Tom Gillard: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Back when there was no women on submarines, you could smoke on submarines. And it was. It was a different world.

Peggy Gillard: That's a cult war.

Tom Gillard: Anyway, so an event happened. My bro, one of my brothers, and one of eight kids, five boys, three girls, one mom, one dad, one bathroom.

Jan: We have one bathroom.

Tom Gillard: Yeah, three. Three bedrooms. Yeah. Well, anyway, my younger brother Paul was in the army and he was killed in a army accident or in a vehicle accident. And I remember, okay, I'm going to change my life.

I am going to stop doing all these dumb things and I'll just call it sex, drug and rock and roll. You know, just leave it at that.

Jan: And I go 70s, too.

Tom Gillard: Yeah. Oh, yeah, it was. Yeah. And so I go home to,

you know, to be the big support. And when I saw Paul in the coffin, it was.

It just broke me. And I came back to Pearl harbor and they actually sent me to another submarine. And a number of that submarine was USS Hawkbill. The number of it is 666.

The Corps. And I didn't know anything. Well, the Bible or what that meant.

And submarine goes out to sea. You know, we're underwater for three months and I read a little pamphlet about. By Billy Graham about how to become a believer. I go down in the diesel compartment of that submarine and I said, okay, I gotta have a step of faith.

So I took all my cigarettes, like 10 cartons of cigarettes.

Jan: Yeah, that's back before they were 40.

Tom Gillard: Bucks off of cards, 75 cents a pack. And I started tearing them up. I said, okay, God, this is my act of faith. And I remember one guy coming down the ladder into this, into the compartment saying, you know, you should.

You should save those, you know, because you could get rich towards the end of our. And I said, no, this is for Jesus. And. And that's where it all started.

There was a group of guys on there called. That were believers, and I started hanging out with them. They called it the God Squad on the devil boat.

And I met my first experience with going to a lively church. It was called a Protestant church. Was a full gospel businessman meeting.

Jan: Yeah, yeah.

Tom Gillard: And I had no idea what to expect. And I walked in and there was a lot of gifts of the spirit going on. And I was so surprised by that.

Jan: Is this something? Is this real or is this.

Peggy Gillard: I don't do this in the Catholic church.

Tom Gillard: Yeah, yeah.

Peggy Gillard: It's quiet.

Tom Gillard: Yeah. And so depends.

Peggy Gillard: Yeah, yeah.

Tom Gillard: Well, anyway, I wrote home to tell my parents that my life was changed. I stopped doing all these things which I had. I was now going to church. And they sent me a letter back and said, I'm sorry you left.

Left the one true church. And that. That was hard. Really hard. Anyway, to make it the. Speed this up a bit, the submarine left Pearl harbor, went over to Washington state to go into the shipyard for overhaul.

We went looking for a church,

and we hopped in. My car was a Ford Pinto. Five guys in a Ford Pinto, which was an act of faith back then.

Jan: Because it didn't even have back door. Right, right.

Tom Gillard: And those were the Pintos that if you hit the back end, it turned into Chariots of Fire. Right. And so we got lost. Didn't find the church we were looking for.

And we'd do what guys do. We just kept driving and we kept driving and driving. We came upon a free church in Harper. Harper Evangelical Free Church in Washington state there.

And all I saw was word free. And I said, who's. It's free. Let's go.

And we walked in and we're standing in the back. Bunch of sailors in the back of church holding Bibles. And I looked up in the choir and I was smitten by a little alto.

Peggy Gillard: No, you're gonna get it right one of these years.

Tom Gillard: What? I don't know. Soprano.

Peggy Gillard: Soprano.

Tom Gillard: Soprano, yeah. And I was so interested in her. However, the guy who had discipled me on the submarine, his name was also Tom. I found out she Liked Tom. It was the wrong Tom.

And I was, oh, no, what are we gonna do? So here's my brother in the Lord, and I find out that she likes him. He's very outgoing, just like Peggy is.

And I thought, oh, Lord.

Anyway,

that. That was 44 years ago.

First time I asked her out, she said, well, who else is going?

And I said, it's just me.

Peggy Gillard: You have to understand the group dynamic at this church. There was a lot of us that had all grown up together.

So we were from high school into college beyond, and we'd all grown up together.

There was a couple people that were romantically, you know, were dating. But most of us, it was just, what are we going to do Friday? We'd do Bible study. Then we'd go have fun and do some different things.

So when these guys all walk into church,

you're like, okay, this is a Navy tale. We know what sailors look like. Little yellow registration card starts at the Sopranos. Sailors in church. And it goes down the entire front row, Sopranos and altos.

Because we're all looking out there and we're seeing them and we know who they are and what they are.

So, yeah, it was like.

Tom Gillard: So we met in November of 79. I asked her out in April.

And that was when you said, who else is going?

We were engaged in September because I'd taken you for a walk down the road. And I said, give me three reasons why you shouldn't marry me. She could only give me two.

Peggy Gillard: Sorry.

Tom Gillard: We got married in January of 81.

Peggy Gillard: It was pretty quick.

Jan: What were the reasons?

Peggy Gillard: Oh, boy.

Tom Gillard: You didn't think you were. Oh, you were spiritual enough or something?

Peggy Gillard: I didn't think. Yeah. I was so taken aback, having grown up in the church. I'd been in the church since I was 4 to see these guys come in and to know that in Tom, this, Tom's case, he had only been a believer a couple years, and he could run circles around me,

spiritually speaking. He took it off scripture, I mean, the whole 10 yards. And I was just. I said to him, I don't think I'm who God has for you. It's going to be somebody different, somebody who's more ingrained and.

And you can really talk scripture with and stuff. And I said, I just don't know that it's me.

And I. I don't remember the other one.

Tom Gillard: I wasn't listening. Anyway, I knew. Okay, I knew you didn't get to.

Peggy Gillard: Three, so I didn't get to three. So I was just. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Tom Gillard: Yeah. Then you finally did. And.

Peggy Gillard: And we had, you know, we had a wonderful church family that I had grown up with. I'd known most of these people my entire life, and we actually had an elder at the time who was in a very high position at the shipyard where Tom was in the navy at.

And he kind of discipled these guys.

And his wife,

she was the sweetest gal. She would invite these guys over. They could do their laundry, they could play. They had younger kids, and so the guys could play with their kids.

And. And he approaches me one Sunday and pulls me aside and he says to me, one of those young men likes you. I have it on good authority, which was his wife.

One of those young men likes you, and it's not the one that you think it is, and if you don't pay attention, you're gonna miss the best gift God will have for you.

And I was like, whoa.

You know, and I. I appreciated this man and, and his influence, and I thought, wow, this is. You know, and by that time, you know, the. The other Tom, since he'll probably get to see this, so will his wife.

The other Tom and I were both extroverts, so it was easy to talk with him and. And fun to banter back and forth. And. Yeah. You know, they used to say, I always heard the saying that if you.

You marry your opposite, because if the both of you are the same, one of you isn't necessary.

Jan: Yeah.

Peggy Gillard: So, yeah, this was meant to be.

Jan: And how many years have you been married?

Peggy Gillard: 44. Oh, yeah. Just said her 44.

Jan: That's amazing.

Tom Gillard: Yeah. So many jokes come to my mind. I'm restraining myself.

Peggy Gillard: Thank you. You guys will appreciate that. He's restraining himself.

Jan: So, Tom, you've had a little divine detour.

Tom Gillard: Yes.

So February 3rd, I was told that I have colorectal cancer, which was a complete surprise because I had just had a colonoscopy five years ago. I was on the 10 year plan, come back and, you know, 10 years.

And, well, I was five years early, and they. They did the colonoscopy and came out and said, yeah, you have a. You have a tumor.

Jan: You had that C word.

Tom Gillard: Yeah, yeah. Join the club. Yeah. And,

yeah, it's so. Yep, we're in there. And I see it as.

This is years ago, God gave us a verse. We had a little girl who passed away of a heart defect, and I was teaching a Sunday school class at the time, and the scripture of John, chapter nine came to mind.

Who sinned?

Disciples asking Jesus, who sinned? You Know this man or his parents that he was born blind. And Jesus says, no, this is so the works of God could be displayed.

I believe that's John 9:3, and that's how I'm approaching this now, is that the works of God could be displayed in this. And it's not like, you know, I've.

My spiritual life has taken off. I feel more bold.

I don't feel like my days have been shortened. God says our days are numbered. It's not like you get cancer instead of like, whoa, we'll take away 300 now. They're still numbered.

God knows what they are.

And I feel very motivated to talk about Jesus and his kingdom, the kingdom of God. And the hardest part is,

you know, I can be very evangelical, sharing with my family and friends and. But I think of my wife being alone, and that just crushes me.

Jan: Yeah.

Tom Gillard: And that's the other side of this, I guess, is a spouse of cancer victims. What about them?

Jan: So, Peggy, has this been. What have you. I mean, initially, you have a shock, and then what happens? Then. Then where are you?

Peggy Gillard: Well, you. You know, for us,

like Tom shared, we. I. My last pregnancy, I had twins.

And we didn't know till I was five months along that we were going to have twins.

And so they didn't do ultrasound or anything. It wasn't the science it is today.

And so we had a son, Nicholas, and we already had two boys. Nathan and Brett have a Nicholas.

So we had our son Nicholas, and then our daughter was born.

Nick came first, and then we had Nicole. And Nicole lived seven days.

And like Tom shared, that verse meant a lot to us.

And so my initial response was I had done a. An amazing women's Bible study. I think it was Jennifer Rothschild that did it. Psalm 23. And having grown up in the church, I knew that psalm frontwards and backwards.

And she just opened it up. I mean, it was just amazing to go through that Bible study. And I still joke with some of the gals that I took it with that surely goodness and mercy are behind us, following us.

But I knew what it was like to walk through the valley of the shadow of death, because I had done it before with our daughter.

And so in my heart of hearts, I knew that we would not walk this path alone,

that Christ would be there, that he would hold our hands and walk through it with us.

But I would be. Wouldn't be truthful to not say that I had my days where I said, really, God?

Jan: Yeah, really.

Peggy Gillard: You know, I've grown up with asthma. He's he's had heart disease. He's had two knee replacements of shoulder replacement.

And really God,

you know, but yet we both knew that we would walk through that valley and we wouldn't be alone. And we're still in the same church family that we were in when I brought the car that went down the front, you know, and these people,

many of our friends, we're all still together. We're all, you know, we're all still married. We visit with each other, we encourage each other. So we knew, I knew that I would not walk that path alone.

Tom Gillard: You know, something that's encouraged me from the Scriptures is some of the last things Jesus said in the end of Matthew, he says, all authority and power, I'm going to paraphrase it has been given to me.

And then in the book of Acts, right before the ascension, he tells them the Holy Spirit is going to come, and then he ascends to heaven. He sits down on the throne, and King Jesus is sitting on the throne.

His kingdom is here on earth and in heaven. And I feel like God has given this to us and equips us to reach people who might be going through this.

I am. So I see this, I see this as a tool,

and I see this as a way to reach out to people and talk about crisis. My days are numbered, so are yours. And, and, and you need, we really need to take this serious about life in the kingdom.

So many. So there's so many. Jesus, what does he say 150 times the kingdom of God in the New Testament or in Matthew, use the phrase the kingdom of heaven.

And some, some warnings, I think you, you could take about, you know, if you're causing someone to stumble in the kingdom, Jesus says, oh, you don't want to do that.

Better that you get a millstone put around your neck. And some very hyperbolic. Is that the right word? Statements that, you know, plug out your eye, cut off your arm.

You do not want to cause someone to stumble in the kingdom. Or the. In Matthew 25, where some, some people are standing for Christ and he says, you didn't feed me, you didn't take care of me, you didn't visit me.

And they say when. When, you know, and they're surprised. And I'm very motivated by those passages to reach out to people and talk about Jesus and his kingdom and reach them the same way he did, through compassion and love and kindness.

And those are powerful,

powerful tools. Yeah.

Jan: And don't you think that, I mean, for sure, we don't really know Jesus, until we go through suffering. I mean, we are to suffer with him.

Tom Gillard: Yes, it says that. I can't quote the passage now, but it says, you will suffer with him. And that's part of being, I think, in the Lord's army in this kingdom, is that this is something we do to reach people to say God is good.

No matter if your daughter dies or if you have cancer,

God is. God is good.

Peggy Gillard: There wasn't a point in time, you know, and this has all been within the last, what, three weeks that this has come to light, you know, and we have these friends at the church, and I happened to go on that one Sunday, and he was home because he wasn't feeling the greatest.

And I was talking with her and her husband,

and I said, well, how's Tom doing? And I said, well, he's doing good. I said, you know, Tom. And I said, I'm not ready to jump up on the pew and wave the white flag and say, okay, everybody watch us.

We're going to show you how to do this, you know? And her husband laughs. And he sees it because he knows Tom, you know, And I said, this is one of those things where we have to learn how to walk in each other's shoes.

Because I'm not at the point where I want to jump up and say that. However,

I know that. That it will be good and it will be right, and it is an opportunity, you know, But I just had to laugh, you know, I said, it kind of reminds you of.

That you can be so heavenly minded that you're no earthly good.

Jan: Exactly.

Peggy Gillard: You know, that can be my honey.

Jan: I said to my first husband, you're like, back down here. I still have to pay bills. We still have to do things. Just because you're paralyzed doesn't mean that life quits here.

Yep.

Tom Gillard: I mean, all those years ago when. When the submarine was heading from Pearl harbor to Washington State, I remember crying out to Jesus and reading in the Psalms that God provides a home for the lonely.

And we end up in this church all because we got lost.

And. And I've.

Jan: No, I've been there because God directed you there.

Tom Gillard: Yeah. And I've been. We've been there since. I've been there since 1979, and you've.

Peggy Gillard: Been there since 1963.

Jan: So that's.

Tom Gillard: That's over 100 years. And when God said he puts us in a family, I just want to give a plug for the local church because, yeah, they have so taken care of us.

And not to say there's not Squabbles in the family. We've been through a few squabbles,

but we got there. I heard about Robert's rules of order. I didn't know what that was. The choir director was a guy named Robert. And I said, oh, he's got a book.

And.

But the church is so. Yeah, it's such a blessing to be around people that know you, that take care of you well, and you've been.

Jan: There for other people. Yeah, it's not a one way street.

Peggy Gillard: Yeah, yeah.

Tom Gillard: And that's, that's the body of Christ. There's. I. I think there's a special God uses the local church. You know, I know a lot nowadays. A lot of people are deconstructing it, but boy, you want to be in a family,

find yourself a good church.

Peggy Gillard: That was kind of a fun story, you know, this first Sunday that they come to our church later, we're talking and I asked him, what made you decide to stay besides the fact that.

Jan: You know, that I happen to be there.

Peggy Gillard: There was a lot of singles, but he said he'll never forget walking into it. Back then they would call it the narthex. You know, walking into the northeast. And this gentleman came up to him and shoved their hands and welcomed him and says, come with me.

And he takes him into the sanctuary and he finds a place to see and. And he goes, we all sit down and he says, and pretty soon we notice the same man kind of walks out and sets up in one of the pews below the choir.

And pretty soon the service starts. And that same man got up and opens his Bible and he goes, that man was the pastor.

We had a wonderful pastor back then that was just such a discipler of people.

Tom Gillard: How many weddings after our wedding?

Peggy Gillard: So there were probably seven other weddings in the next year and a half to two years. I think the guys, three of them.

Jan: Were the other guys.

Tom Gillard: Yeah, it was like seven brides for seven sailors. We started marrying all the women.

Jan: Then the guy's like, whoa, wait a.

Peggy Gillard: Minute, we got to make some decisions.

Tom Gillard: Yeah, they got, they got scared and, and yeah, that was.

Peggy Gillard: And I think every one of them are still together to this day.

Jan: That's neat. I think that also speaks to how important it is that we greet new people that walk through the door. You know, it really makes all the difference to. Not like, I'm not sure this is where I want to be.

Peggy Gillard: Right.

Jan: And I feel like I want to find out whatever, but just that friendly smile. Somebody, hey, tell me about me. Tell me a little bit about yourself here. You know, just that little bit of it is what.

Yeah,

yeah, yeah. I really feel good here. Yeah, yeah.

Tom Gillard: The church is the bride of Christ and Christ loves his bride. And there are things we don't always agree with, but unity, unity, unity. You know, we don't want to be.

You know, division is not a good thing in a family.

Jan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you, we were chatting ahead of time that you have some ideas for maybe some kids books.

Tom Gillard: Oh, yeah, Interesting. I used to, we had an awana program and I would, I created this character called parable Pete. And I'd come dressed in, dressed up like a. Just this wild eyed camper with a walking stick in a backpack and a backpack.

And I say my name is parable Pete. I go from campground to campground telling the best stories, you know, and they're the parables of Jesus. And then we'd get the kids to act out the parables.

Well, we also had a dog and that dog was a pug. And so he became parable Pug. And a couple times we brought the dog in to do Bible drills and we'd hide his treat inside a blanket.

Then we put a bible down and we say the verse. And who could get to the verse or the treat first? Of course, they could never beat parable Pug.

And so the idea came from that. I want to write a story, a series of books about parable Pug and the kingdom of God. Because there's 12 parables where Jesus talks about the kingdom of God.

You know, the seed, the yeast,

the soil, the lost coin, the prodigal son. I can't name them all right now, but I want to write about parable Pug discovering those principles and just, you know. Boy, you learn a lot just writing kids book.

Jan: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What a great series that would be too.

Tom Gillard: Yeah.

Peggy Gillard: Well. And we have two grandchildren, they're seven and four now. But they both have met Louie the pug, that's our dog and he's part of the family, you know, and we thought what a creative way to share parables with children.

But this little pug dog, you know, because kids love pets, little dogs and.

Jan: Louie woods, even if they are ugly.

Peggy Gillard: Yeah, they are. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tom Gillard: But start chemotherapy in about a week. So we're not into that hard part yet. I imagine some people are watching this and, and they're into the, the, the difficult parts of chemotherapy.

Right now we're on a vacation on the Oregon coast before that comes. And you invited us to your beautiful sanctuary out here and we're going to head down and just spend some time together and get ready.

There's part of me that just want to acknowledge the people who are really going through the tough part of it. We don't want to sit here laughing, saying, well, we got cancer coming.

Well,

I don't know where the. I haven't been where some of these people are at, and I just want to. I don't know you, but I am looking.

Looking up to people like you who are hanging on and pushing through it and.

Peggy Gillard: Hmm. Yeah, we're very fortunate. We have a wonderful small group that we're involved with.

And ironically, in our small group, we have a couple that just lost their son. He was 33.

He had spina bifida and had it all his life.

And Eric was just. He was Jesus on wheels. You know, he'd go, and they have a restaurant in town, and he was just a bright light.

And he wound up having. Not feeling well, turned into a stroke. They went through how many months?

March. It's been almost a year.

Tom Gillard: Yeah. I want to say nine or ten months.

Peggy Gillard: Yeah. And people praying and praying for him and. And the Lord took him home.

Jan: Yeah.

Peggy Gillard: There was close to over 500 people at that young man's memorial service, which.

Jan: Means that his affected. It did A whole bunch of people.

Peggy Gillard: And we have two other gals that are involved in our small group that are now widows. One of them was. Was married to one of the guys that I grew up with, Dan.

Dan went up with a brain tumor and passed five years ago. This other lady has lost her husband about a year and a half ago. So we're in this small group that with people that have been through the time period from that loss, they're still just hanging on to Jesus.

And then there's some of us that have gone through loss many years ago. Our youngest is 30, 33, now 34. Yeah. So it's been wonderful to be involved with that group.

Jan: We're all history together.

Peggy Gillard: We have a history and we all realize that there's different ways that people grieve there to support one another.

Jan: And there is no right answer for grief.

Peggy Gillard: No, no, there isn't.

Tom Gillard: It's so individual. And I remember after Nicole died, she kept watching me and watching me because she needed to see me grieve him grief. And I don't. And being the guy I was hiding behind all the expenses and the bills and that come along with funerals and burial plots and such,

and.

And. But she needed to see me grieve.

Peggy Gillard: And yeah,

actually God answered That prayer pretty. In a pretty amazing way.

We used to work together, so we worked with a lot of the same people. And I was home at this juncture in my life.

Anyway, he calls me, says, why don't you put Nicholas in the car and come over and meet me for lunch or something? I want to show you. And so I was like, okay, you know, So I threw Nicholas in his car seat, and we drive over to Bremerton, and he comes out of the shipyard,

and he says, it's uptown here. I want to show you something. And so we're walking uptown, and there was a store that was closed, and so a local art gallery had put in some pictures and things in the windows.

And as we're walking up there, he goes, there's a picture I want you to see. And I was like, really? And he's not particularly into art, you know, so I thought, interesting.

And as we walk up, I look up, and there is this picture, and it's a beautiful picture of this field of daisies.

And in the middle of this field of daisies, you only see her from the back is this little girl with long brown hair in braids and little overalls, and she's running through this field of daisies.

And he goes,

if I had the money, I would buy that, because that's Nicole. Yeah. And I just, you know, I'm sure the tears started coming down my face, and I was just like, thank you, Lord, that you saw fit to show that to him, that he could show it to me.

And I felt so much better because I felt like he does think about her. He does, you know? And so again, you know, God's there.

Jan: You just look for him.

Peggy Gillard: He's there.

Jan: And it's a. All kinds of ways.

Peggy Gillard: Yes.

Jan: In all kinds of ways.

Tom Gillard: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Peggy Gillard: The day it was actually the day we found out that it was cancer, I wound up getting a text from a childhood friend who now attends our church. And her and her husband were in Arizona.

And she is one of these people who. She says, I'm not going to get on Facebook and get involved in all this stuff. I'm just gonna post fun things.

Jan: Yeah.

Peggy Gillard: And she posts this little story about. This wasn't about. It was about a woman. Right. And it was her husband that had passed.

Tom Gillard: I'll nod like, I know.

Peggy Gillard: Okay. There's an old story, and I've heard this before, where this man had this crazy request that he wanted to be buried.

Jan: Oh.

Peggy Gillard: With a fork in his hand. Yeah. And she said that that day and talks about how the best is yet to come. Right. And I thought,

charlene has no idea where we are right now. You know, that I'm sitting over here at the hospital and Tom just got diagnosed with colorectal cancer. And so I text her back and I said, where are you?

And she goes, well, we're down at Yuba. And I was like, okay. And so I shared with her, and she was like. We were both just like, there you go.

God gives you those little gems. You just have to look for em.

Tom Gillard: They're there the morning after we read it. I think it's the final two verses of Psalm 27. I just. This happens all the time to people who are born again. The spirit of God inside of them.

In the word of God, you just. You run into a verse and you go, oh, my goodness. This was. The psalmist says, I believe I shall see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living.

Jan: Yeah.

Tom Gillard: Was it safe?

Oh, I said, be strong.

Don't give up. You know, And. And it's just like, well, that's exactly what I need to hear. Then I'm looking through our substack articles and our friends, and there's this gal wants to follow me, and that verse is underneath her thing.

And. Yeah. It's just. It happens all the time with. With the word of God. How Jesus will use that and just.

Jan: Remind you that's why it's the living word of God.

Tom Gillard: Yes, exactly.

Jan: Why it's the living word of God.

Tom Gillard: Yeah. The first time I heard that, I thought, this is a strange thing, you know, and it is so true to try and explain that to people who, you know, it's not something you can obtain academically.

I think Jesus says that. He says that these are not spiritually understood. You know, it's the Holy Spirit. You must be born again.

Peggy Gillard: Yeah.

Tom Gillard: You must be born again to understand the word of God.

Peggy Gillard: Yeah.

Tom Gillard: And that's. I didn't make up the rules. Yeah.

Jan: Thinking about your community. One of the things that helped me when I had brain cancer, breast cancer. They both started with a B, Right. That's breast cancer.

I started a little spiral, and I put me in the middle. And then I started writing. Every time there was somebody, the name of whoever was praying for me or sent me a car or something, until it's just.

Is this whole thing, you just being surrounded by what a crazy it was just gave me such comfort to know every time there's one more person, oh, somebody's praying for me.

Somebody else is paying me. Somebody else is, you Know, and just around. They sent me a card, they sent me a word of encouragement, they sent me a scripture or whatever, you know.

Tom Gillard: Yeah, I know. One thing I wouldn't recommend for cancer is, is nowadays you have artificial intelligence and I think it's called Chat GPT.

Jan: Yeah.

Tom Gillard: So you can get the doctor's reports. I was doing this, I was taking the doctor's reports and running them through Chat GPT. Put it at my reading level, you know.

Jan: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tom Gillard: And it comes back. I said, oh my goodness. And you know, so it doesn't. I wouldn't recommend that.

Jan: And I wouldn't recommend getting onto every YouTube about you're kind of cancer and all those kind of things. Cuz I did that. I was like, oh no, no, no, no, no, no.

That's all it does is get you all wrapped up into something that's like, no, yeah, don't do that. I would say do not do that.

Peggy Gillard: There's just so much of it you don't understand.

Jan: So much of this rabbit hole.

Peggy Gillard: Yeah, everybody's different.

Tom Gillard: And yeah, you do have to stay ahead of your thought life though, because if you get caught up in some negative things and you forget, you know, like if this life were all there was to offer,

it could be very discouraging.

Jan: Yeah. But there's a blessing in knowing ahead. And who's to say that this is going to be the reason you die?

Tom Gillard: Yeah, right.

Jan: Nobody's to say that. You don't know that. You know. However,

with that thought in mind, now you have time to. So do I have my will in order? Do I have what I need in order? Have I said to people what I need to say or have I, you know, who have I forgotten about that I really want to make sure that I spend time with?

Or all of those things with your kids and with your. Even your belongings or whatever. All those things, you know. Yeah, yeah, you have time to do that.

Tom Gillard: Exactly. Because like I, I do our. Usually in a marriage you will have, you know, unless Dave Ramsey's got his hands,

you know, one of you will be, will be managing the money. And I like to do my hours on an Excel spreadsheet.

Peggy Gillard: Oh my God.

Tom Gillard: And that doesn't work well with my bride. And so I'm trying.

Yeah. And so we're trying to just, you know, even if I didn't have cancer, those are things everyone should.

Jan: We should do anyway.

Peggy Gillard: We should do anyway.

Jan: But this kind of gives little impetus to making sure that it happens.

Peggy Gillard: Right. Does she have your passwords?

Jan: Does she yeah.

Tom Gillard: Oh, yeah, yeah. Have you. There's only one password you got to memorize.

Peggy Gillard: That's right. I have to get mine into a story for him.

Tom Gillard: That's how he remembers his grandkids, birthday, size. She knows it all.

Peggy Gillard: Yeah.

Tom Gillard: One password. No, no, no, she isn't.

Jan: She's.

Peggy Gillard: No more excuses.

Jan: Right, Right.

Peggy Gillard: Yeah.

Jan: Well, at any rate, you know, those are just all things that. Just to think that you do have an opportunity to do that. I know with my husband, my first husband, you know, I.

We did a lot of pre grieving. You know, it was two years from the time he was diagnosed to the time. And so there was a lot of pre grieving, but there's a lot of richness that God did with him.

Amazing, amazing richness. So. Yeah.

Tom Gillard: Yeah. And there's a scripture where it tells people to call the elders to come pray and anoint you. And we've done that. And, and we've seen some prayers answered and, And I, I don't.

When I was on the elder board, I don't think a lot of people think about that, you know, and the church has resources and they can guide you through this.

Jan: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tom Gillard: We're in a really good church.

Jan: Yeah. So that's. That's just wonderful.

Peggy Gillard: Yeah, it is.

Jan: It's.

Peggy Gillard: It's interesting in that one of the. One of the elders that was there, one that night was one of the speakers at our daughter's funeral.

Tom Gillard: Oh.

Peggy Gillard: He got up and spoke. We asked him to do that.

Jan: Yeah.

Peggy Gillard: Share a friend's thought.

Jan: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Peggy Gillard: And so here we are, you know, 34 years later.

Jan: Yeah.

Peggy Gillard: And now we're, you know, he's praying for us, for this journey that we're on now, you know?

Jan: Well, and I don't. I think.

I think what we not need to not do is get into.

It's so spiritual and all of this stuff. We know that we forget that we're human and we love each other and we care about each other and we are going to miss each other one day when we die, you know,

and that's okay. And to be okay with that, I don't have to fit into this. Oh, well, I shouldn't be.

Peggy Gillard: Right. Like there's a prescribed way that you're supposed. Yeah, yeah.

Jan: We can see how the goodness of God and all of he has for us, but that doesn't negate that we're human and we have emotions.

Peggy Gillard: Right.

Jan: That's okay.

Tom Gillard: It's like the, the famous, most memorized verse in the New Testament. Right. Two words Then Jesus wept.

Jan: Jesus wept.

Tom Gillard: You know, he. He sees Lazarus Tomb and he cries. And, and is it Martha who comes running out and says, if you would have been here, you wouldn't have died?

Jan: Yeah.

Peggy Gillard: I heard a gal speak one time and I couldn't tell you now who it was,

but she talked about if we believe in Christian marriage, that the two become one and you have to lose part of that oneness, that. That's painful.

Jan: Yeah.

Peggy Gillard: Because you're cutting apart a unity that God put together.

Jan: Yeah.

Peggy Gillard: You know, and, and he's there and, and he'll walk with you through that. But I, you know, I have not been through the process of losing a spouse, you know, and that's going to be painful and it's going to hurt whenever it happens, you know?

Jan: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tom Gillard: We do, we do everything together.

Peggy Gillard: I mean, it's really kind of crazy.

Tom Gillard: Well, we, we work together. We are in the same tire pool. Obviously. The only time we didn't see each other at work is when we went to the bathroom because.

Jan: Yeah, yeah.

Peggy Gillard: We drive to work together, we drive home together, we'd eat lunch together. We, you know, it was as you're married besties. Yeah. You know, and it's, it's fun because we still, you know, there are people that follow him, his podcast, or not podcast, but his blog and different things.

And, and we recognize the names. These are people that we worked with.

Tom Gillard: And, you know, remember the road trip? We, we took a four month road trip. Like one month from Washington to Maine, one month from Maine to Key west. And people. And we, we were together 24, seven.

Four months. You know, people say, how did you do that?

Well, we had a marriage counsel in the truck that you break out and.

Peggy Gillard: And it was usually GPS battles. That was usually what it was.

Tom Gillard: Driving into Boston and we. Your diets are not good on road trips.

Peggy Gillard: No. Because you eat what helps keep you awake.

Jan: Yeah, yeah.

Tom Gillard: We're eating cheesy popcorn and touching the GPS and it shuts down just as you get into Boston.

Peggy Gillard: There's freeways and cars.

I'm. We're just like, oh, my gosh, it won't work. You know, so I grabbed my phone and I'm pulling up Google Maps and we get it up just in time to take the exit.

Jan: Yeah.

Peggy Gillard: So then we're trying to figure out. He's like, okay, I gotta pull the GPS and figure out what's going on. And we just took a wipe and wiped the screen clean and it came right back.

So don't do GPS with cheesy. Popcorn. That's take away.

Jan: That's it. Okay.

Tom Gillard: There's a lot of stories you can tell you about that. Where.

Remember the bugs in Florida? Where we had a huge argument in Florida and I mean, this is the kind where you're not talking.

Peggy Gillard: Yeah, yeah.

Tom Gillard: So we, we check into our hotel room and we've learned to look at, you know, the rooms before you start unpacking.

Peggy Gillard: Does the shower drain?

Tom Gillard: So we're not talking Strange. We went and looked at her bed and there was an ant on it. And we lifted up the COVID and there was a whole line of ants.

Peggy Gillard: Oh no, I'm looking down and they're coming down from the wind window by.

Jan: The air conditioner and come up. Maybe not.

Tom Gillard: Yeah. Anyway, through all that, you know, God used those little hands to get us talking. So scriptural, you know, one another, you know, you serve one another. You, you know, love, love your husbands, love your spouses.

Christ loved the church and be the first to apologize. And God used those ants to, you know, to wake me up.

Yeah.

Jan: Well, any final words you want to share with our audience?

Tom Gillard: Do you want to go first?

Peggy Gillard: Yeah. I have to think.

Tom Gillard: Focus on Jesus.

Find purpose in it. There's a purpose in this. When Nicole died, we started what we called Nicole's ministry. And we would talk to people whose children were ill and there's a lot of stories we could tell about that, but there's a purpose in it.

God is going to display his works. There's a purpose in this cancer and use it for God's glory.

Look what Christ did with his brokenness.

You know, he saved us.

And stay involved in your church. Stay immersed in the scriptures. Get a verse in your head. I call them bumper stickers. You just need a portion of scripture to meditate on and to think of and to think about that.

I do that all the time. And,

and don't forget your spouse.

Don't forget.

Jan: Yeah, yeah.

Tom Gillard: You know, it's so.

Oh, I can't think of any. You know, I just don't want to leave her alone, you know, but I trust God to take care of her.

Peggy Gillard: And we have three boys and they're each very much their own person. You know, they're all different,

but yet all of them are going to be there. You know, they've all reached out. They're all part of our lives. And you know, for that we're really grateful because, you know, God's blessed us with three great kids and blessed me even further with three wonderful daughter in laws and I love each of them and.

And our two grandbabies.

Jan: Yeah.

Peggy Gillard: But, you know, keep looking up. You know, there's so much in life right now that gets you looking down. You know, there's. Everywhere you look, it's. There's negativity. You know, they're pointing fingers.

They're pointing fingers. It's like, no, we don't have time for this. You know, just keep looking up, you know, and look for those gems. That's what we call them, that God gives you.

You know, if. If you're looking, you'll see him.

Jan: Yeah.

Peggy Gillard: So keep looking for him.

Jan: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tom Gillard: And not only pray for the people with cancer, but pray for the caregivers care. Bless the caregivers. They works. Caregiving is hard work.

And pray for the doctors and.

Yeah. And thank you to people like you who have these ministries that can take a story like this and hopefully bless other people. We are so happy you did this.

You know, we see it as.

Peggy Gillard: It's fun to meet some of Tom's writing buddies.

Tom Gillard: What a joy it was to meet you.

Jan: Yeah.

Tom Gillard: Yeah. So thank you.

Jan: Well, thank you. Thank you.