Heather Miller:Faith Amidst Conflict: Stories from Ukraine

OneMission support for Ukraine

In this episode, seasoned missionary Heather Miller shares heartfelt stories from her years spent in Ukraine, highlighting the country's transformation and the resilience of its people amid the ongoing conflict. 

She delves into her last visit in 2021, her adopted Ukrainian sons’ experience, and the impacts of war on her friends and colleagues. 

Heather provides a unique perspective on how faith and community have withstood the trials brought on by the war, offering listeners a deep and personal understanding of Ukraine's current situation.

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Transcript

[00:02] Jan: Welcome to just talking about Jesus. I'm Jan Johnson, a seasoned believer who loves relationships and, you know, just talking about Jesus. Heather Miller. Nice to have you here.

[00:16] Heather: Thank you. It's good to be here.

[00:18] Jan: I thought that we would talk about Ukraine because that's kind of. You spent a few years there, you. Yeah, as a missionary and gain friends and whatever. I don't even know where to start.

[00:34] Heather: Well, 

And then Covid hit. In fact, we were going to go in 2019, and then we decided not to go then. And then Covid hit. So 2020 was out, but we decided that we're going to go in 2021 regardless of COVID What's happening? The country was open for travelers, so we went through all the hoops, and we went back with Markian and Josiah, for which I am forever grateful that they had the opportunity to see their homeland beautiful, thriving. Just amazing. 

One of the things my son Markian, who is an engineering major now at OSU, one of the things he really appreciated was to see the ancient buildings and the ancient memorials or whatever they were right next to a brand-new stainless steel and glass modernization structure. Just the juxtaposition of the way and the way the country has embraced all of who they are was something that really was meaningful for my son, Markian. So I know in my head those are the last personal memories I have. 

Obviously, the pictures coming out of there is much altered. Our friends are now scattered abroad. We had friends all over the country we worked with, primarily with college students. And so when you're working with that demographic, naturally they tend to scatter after they finish their studies. And so we did have friends scattered from the west to the east. And we would spend time in Lviv. Kyiv, and Kharkiv were the three places that we would divide our time when we would go back to spend time with friends and Kharkiv is no longer viable to visit at this point. It's been just consistently bombarded. But I think for us, yeah, we have. So now, many of our friends, many of them went to Lviv, which we lived and ministered in Lviv for several years, but a lot of them took their children to towns in the Carpathians near the Romanian border. And the thinking was, well, they're not going to risk bombing these small villages, first of all, and then close to Romania. 

 You know, Russia would maybe not do that. And Lviv is not far from the polish border. In fact, some of the bombing that has happened in Lviv, there have been incidences where missiles have landed in the territory of Poland. So it's still a very tense situation. And our friends that had to flee Kharkiv are in the. Some of. Well, they're all over the globe, really. But our closest friends that live there are living in England and with their four children, and so their kids are growing up, you know, multicultural and all that. 

So it's. It's hard. And I think at some point, my brain just tried to compartmentalize everything in order to keep functioning. When the war first, and I say escalated, because really, in 2014 is when Russia invaded Ukraine, sovereign territory. It was just kind of on the periphery in the east. A lot of misunderstanding in the western press is that it was an organic movement of the Ukrainian people who wanted to be a part of Russia. 

That's not true that Russia sent troops in with. They just removed their insignia from the uniforms, but they all. They had uniforms, they had weaponry. They had all of the hallmarks of a military, but they just removed their identification. So that was in 2014, obviously. They also took over Crimea. And so it's been, the war has been going on for ten years, and a lot of people here in the west only recognize that it was in 2022 when Russia was so bold as to attack Kyiv, the capital, which is several hundred kilometers within Ukrainian territory. We all know now that it was not successful, but we did have friends living in the suburbs. Irpin is the name of one community that was very early targeted and taken over by Russian troops. And they actually came clear to us here in tiny little Knappa, Oregon, and we kind of help them figure out what to do and where to go. They didn't end up staying after, I think it was in June. 

They went to visit some friends in Atlanta, and now they are actually Russia then retreated from those areas around Kyiv, and they were able to return home to their dad and husband. So it's been interesting to see how our friends and associates have responded. Some have chosen to stay with their children, and they're like, this is our home. We are not leaving, and we are in God's hands. And then we have others who have said, well, we are going to protect our children and we are going to leave. And like I said, some have gone to border towns. Some have been in, actually lived in Romania for a while. There was a ministry center there that was helping Ukrainian refugees. Many of them have. Now some of them are in Poland. We have some in Czech Republic, England. I mentioned our friends there. And then, yes, some have chosen to stay or return. So it's been a really different response from all of our different friends. And by and large, they are all people who walk with Jesus.

[07:23] Jan: Yeah.

[07:24] Heather: So one of the lessons for me, I think, was, well, God just. There's no cookie cutter answer. There's no, this is what Jesus wants you to do. This is what God would have you do. And that works for everybody. Right. It's just been interesting to see how God has moved and worked in each of their lives to give them a different perspective and take them different places.

[07:47] Jan: So what specific things have you seen that God's been doing with individuals?

[07:56] Heather: It's been. So when we first moved over to Ukraine, well, we started visiting Ukraine in 1992, the year Tim and I got married. Tim took a short-term trip for three weeks to Kiev and some small outlying areas with our church that we had been attending in Colorado Springs. So then he was there for three weeks and came back very excited, but to a fiancé who was all about wedding plans and, okay, so now you've done this thing, we can get on with life. And then we then were invited to come back the following year, and they asked Tim and I to help lead the team. 

So there were two couples, us and then some dear friends, John and Amy Tamblin, who we went together, and we led a small group of college students again back over at the request of some churches. And so we did that. And then just. It's just interesting to see God's hand, how he moved to get us over there full time. But in 1997, so all of that to say we were there not long after the Soviet Union had disintegrated. That was in 1991, when Ukraine declared their independence and the different soviet republics. So we were really there observing and being a part of it, watching this huge transformation happen from a distance. We were there short periods of time. Tim continued to travel into former soviet republics, not just Ukraine, but we moved over as a family to Ukraine in 1997. So we had already seen this huge transformation. But we went over there in 97. 

Things were still pretty rough. Services were not very well established. You went without hot water in the capital city of 6 million people. We went without hot water for the entire month of June. You didn't control your own heat. Goods were still pretty scarce, but it was improving. A lot of imports were starting, but Ukrainian industry and manufacturing hadn't yet caught up with creating goods within their own country. 

So in 97, that started our long term, and living in the country and watching them develop and watching the church grow and change and Christian ministries impacted, you know, and just over how they change organically over time. And one of the things that we really noticed when we first moved, when we first started visiting in 92, it was still very new because atheism had been the law of the land. I think a lot of Americans have forgotten that already, that they were nothing people in the Soviet Union. It was not free to investigate these fates. 

And so there was a lot of people just sorting it out and trying to figure out, and they were being exposed to a lot of different new ideas or ideas that weren't necessarily new, but they had not been able to explore them freely. So that was amazing to be a part of that. The church exploded in growth, and people were just hungry for something.

[11:08] Jan: It was kind of an open field.

[11:10] Heather: Yes, it was. And then as the economy developed, as ministries developed, people had time. New generation was being raised up that didn't remember communism. And the atheists, you know, basically, you had to be atheist. Then we saw a shift in hearts and minds a bit. It wasn't quite the open, you know, openness that we had experienced before, but Ukrainians, as a general rule, are very open people. They're very welcoming and friendly. There's a much different national psyche than you get with Russians. 

So it was our people that we knew that were working and ministering in Russia just had a much different experience than we did in Ukraine. And so we just felt really blessed to be a part of this huge movement of God while we were there. And when we repatriated to the United States, it was one of the most painful decisions that we've ever made. But our ministry had grown and flourished to the point where Ukrainians were doing the ministry, which was our whole goal. We never went over there thinking that we were going to be there for life. We really believed that God was calling us there for a period of time. We didn't know. We thought like eight to ten years, we would probably be over there. 

We came to the US to have some assessments done for our children, and they. Most, most missions organizations require their staff to be in their country of origin for extended periods of time every few years. And so we touched base with supporters and different things like that. But it was during this time it became really evident that for some of our children, we needed to be in the United States, accessing some of those services that they would need here that weren't available still in Ukraine. So we made the difficult decision to repatriate in 2008, and so that was hard, but we never stopped going back and being a part of it. So we've been actively involved in Ukraine since 2000, I want to say 2009. Yeah, it was 2009 when we actually finally made the decision to repatriate. 

And then the family, we finished everything up. All of our detail in November of 2009 is when we. So it was twelve years. We moved over in September of 97, and it was about twelve years of ministry on site over there. Then, like I said, we continued to go back. So we went back more as kind of counselors, more of an apostolic type of a ministry, where we had this relationship with churches and with people, and we would go back and just touch base. And sometimes there was correction, sometimes there was just encouragement for these young churches. And so that's kind of how our role shifted. But with the economic development, it was interesting how it correlated to less of this very open need, and this felt open, felt need for the gospel message. So we did see the doors closing a little bit. Again, Ukrainians are very open people, so it was never totally closed, like in some mission fields that are really challenging. But we did notice a significant shift. 

And so when the war escalated, it was interesting to see how the church's response and how they have been called to this ministry, to refugees, and some of them became refugees. And then the ongoing needs that are there, the trauma care for some of these people who have experienced war firsthand, they really did an amazing job with the. To see the work of the Holy Spirit through our friends and former colleagues or former associates over there was just phenomenal, was such a hard way to receive a blessing. 

And seeing them, seeing their growth, seeing all of the lessons being applied, and I have just such great respect for them, their faith, the way they've navigated all this, their honesty with us. We have a pastor and his wife that are friends with us, and just, you know, they reach out to periodically for not just check in, but just, hey, we just need a conversation. Can we have a conversation? I'm very thankful for modern technology because I'm getting over. To see them in person is really challenging. Although we are talking about it, about going, just being able to have those services, the Facebook messenger, I can call and I can see their face. I don't just have to hear their voice, I can also see their face. That's been a huge blessing to continue just to support, encourage. 

I feel like I'm taking such a, such a small, little, tiny, tiny role, especially compared to when we used to live over there. But I know that God's in control and I know we were just, I was just talking with a friend. We were just chatting back and forth and just like, yeah, I understand things are hard. Isn't it comforting to know that God is still on the throne? And there was just like, absolutely. I don't understand any of this. None of us understand any of it. I just pleaded with the Lord to stop. I continued to plead with the Lord to stop this war, this madness. 

But especially the beginning, I think I just thought, this has to be some sort of awful mistake, right? This. I'm gonna wake up and this nightmare is going to be gone. And that's what happens with shock. Yes. And error. So all of these things, we continue to pray, we continue to support in the small, small ways that we can. I try and raise awareness for people here. My Facebook friends probably get a little sick of some of my posts, you know, but that's too bad.

[17:16] Jan: Yeah, I read every one of them because it's just like, you know, it's information or. Right from the source.

[17:23] Heather: Yeah. So I just learned after living in that part of the world for so many years, that the media that comes, the news reports that come out of there, are hard to believe much of anything. The spin, first of all, prior to the escalation of the war, almost all foreign correspondents who lived in the area, they lived in Russia, they lived in Moscow. And so BBC, their staff was in Moscow, CNN Moscow, all of these international media organizations, their staff was in Moscow on visas that were issued by the Russian government. If they said something or reported something that was not flattering to the Russian government, their visas are pulled and they're kicked out of the country. And so I think people here, when we're so used to freedom of the press and especially in a country that's for what looks like it should be a democracy, and they talk like it's a democracy. It's not a democracy. It's very oppressive. It's very state controlled still. And the media especially, we just knew it was so frustrating when we'd see events unfold in Kyiv or Lviv, you know, any of the parts of the world that we were familiar with and living in. And then to see how it was reported, it was just a joke sometimes.

[18:41] Jan: What are some of the things that you saw that were different than what was reported?

[18:46] Heather: Well, so the Orange revolution, which was in 2001, I wanna say 2004, when there was a corrupt election, was rigged, and the people took to the streets en masse. So they were. Millions of people were traveling to Maidan, Nizalajasni, which is independent square, how it translates. And this, you know, the russian government just accused America of paying these demonstrators to go, and, like, we were living there, we were sending money so our friends could travel and buy food and different things like that, so that I couldn't go. Tim actually went himself to Independence Square. We were living in Lviv at the time, so it was a train right away. But, you know, it was just so interesting to see how it was reported, as if these reports from Russia that America was behind this movement, and they reported it like that was a valid idea. It was not. It was compactly false. It was not true in any way. The church responded phenomenally to that movement as well. Just setting up tents on Independence Square and running 24 hours prayer vigils. Anybody was invited to come join in and pray, offering food, support, and clothing for people who needed. Who had been there for a really long time. And so it was. Yeah, it was amazing to just see how the church responded to that political movement, which is a little bit different than in the war, where everything's being obliterated. And then we have friends who live in Crimea, and when it was taken over, we lost contact with them for a long time because it wasn't safe for them to contact us. When we first tried to get in touch with them, and it was so I said to Tim, it was so interesting, because the only thing that they would say to us over the, you know, the Skype was they would just. Well, what we are being told is. And they would only report what the. They would. And they would express it like that. What we are being told is, when I would say, they did tell me that they were physically safe, they did tell me, you know, some of those things to comfort me, but I'm like, how are you feeling? What are your next steps? And it became really clear to me after about not very long, but five to ten minutes into the conversation, they can't. They can't share with me, really. They know that if they say anything, it's being monitored and recorded. So I think Mann lost his job because he was associated with an evangelical church. And so the government put pressure on the company, threatened, so he lost his job. And these are things that they have been dealing with since 2014. And I just. I want to. It makes me a little crazy. So there's not freedom of the press. There's not even the people who are living underneath that. They are trying to negotiate and navigate life under this oppressive regime. So also, when there was shooting at these demonstrations in 2014, when they invaded Ukraine, people took to the streets again to, to protest. And there was a pro Russian president at the time. They brought in Russian forces, and they were using snipers from the top of buildings to shoot at Red Cross workers. And some of that did get reported on the BBC, but it was very peripheral. It was. Well, we're not sure who these people are, who's controlling these people. They're all very hesitant to come out and explicitly state the facts, you know, so that's a thing that I know have been misreported. There are multiple ones, but those are some things that have just been misreported in the movements and who's behind it. There's just.

[22:55] Jan: Are you aware of any miracles that have happened?

[22:58] Heather: Well, so our friends in Earpin that evacuated and came here very quickly, their entire, so their entire suburb was taken over by Russian troops. And they were, there were some terrible reports coming out of there, but the homes were being bombed and looted and all these things by the troops as they came in. And when things kind of, all the dust all settled and cleared, our friend was able to. They were able to get in touch with a neighbor, and the neighbor had returned already to the neighborhood. And they said, yours is the only house. They never went in. They never went in. They didn't take anything. They didn't go in. They didn't cause a lot of it was just destruction. They went in and just destroyed. Even if they didn't steal anything, they just vandalized. They just vandalized. And I think many of them were so shocked that Ukrainians were living at this very high standard of living because what they're told by the Russian media is the opposite. And so, yeah, their home remained unscathed. Our friends in Kharkiv had the latest round of bombings I haven't heard yet, but their home remained unscathed. And they barely got out of the country, you know, in time before their story at the border is pretty phenomenal. They got there quickly before there was any direction from the polish government about what to do, how to handle this flood of refugees. So they were just letting people go across. They weren't even checking documents. They weren't. You know, I mean, I've been in those queues at the border for hours, you know, while you. Every car is processed. I mean, they were just letting people in. I mean, I've had such a respect for the country of Poland since living in Ukraine, actually. But, boy, the way they've responded to the war and the refugee crisis has really been a testimony to who they are as a people as well, and just. But anyway, so, you know, a couple of stories coming out like that, it's like, that's just an amazing thing. And then I was on Facebook messenger chat with our friends from Harkeev, and, in fact, I had told her when things were getting tenser and tenser at the border and Russia was massing the troops, I said, I knew she was out of the country. She and her husband were on a vacation in Greece, and their four kids were back in Ukraine. And I called her, and I, because I'd been texting. We've been texting back and forth, and they were kind of pooh poohing. This idea that they would actually. Russia would actually invade. It just seems so crazy. And so I finally just called her, and I said, Masha, you have to get home. You have to get back to your kids. No matter what you decide to do, you can't afford to be outside the country when all hell breaks because you.

[25:54] Jan: Could be totally separated from them.

[25:56] Heather: Well, and they're from Kharkiv, which was gonna be the first. I mean, one of the first cities hit, if, you know, with a massive scale invasion. And so they listened. I'm so thankless. Both of them were pretty optimist. They're very optimistic people. They're very hopeful people. They're also very stubborn people. So I wasn't sure if she was gonna. They were gonna believe me, but they did. They went home. I said, you have to load your car up and get ready to leave. If russian troops come in, they're nearly 25 miles from the. From the border. We had just been there. I knew how close they were to the front lines to where this would all go down. Yeah. So I was like, you have to be ready. So they went home. They loaded the car, and actually decided to leave. It was our time here on the February 14 of. I want to say, I think it was Valentine's day of 2022 when the war escalated. And they got in their car and they started driving. And when we were talking, just to stay connected, I just really wanted to have this connection with her. So her husband was driving. They load the car up with the four kids. They were going. And I could hear. And she says, can you hear the shooting in the distance? Can you hear the missiles? And I could. I could hear all of this war happening on the other side of his phone. And I've just. It was a very sleepless night, but, you know, nothing compared to what they were going through. And just. Yeah, the fact that they were able to get out and get to the border. And so because they have four children, her husband is not required to fight. He would probably be a conscience objector. Anyway. He's very much a pacifist, as are many, many Ukrainians. That was one of the things. I think that's probably the reason Ukraine has been such rich pickings for invading armies throughout the centuries, if you know anything about ukrainian history. But they. They just are. They're lovers. They're not fighters. They're. They're a national hero as a poet, for crying out loud.

[28:07] Jan: Right? Yeah.

[28:08] Heather: And so, yeah, he, he would just say, I'm. I'm not gonna pick up a gun and shoot somebody. I just can't fathom that. And so, but anyway, because he's got four kids and they need people to still be making money and still he's an entrepreneur. He's tried to. Most of his businesses ended up having to close. He had health salons throughout the country and of Ukraine, but he's had some in Bulgaria and some other countries. And so he's been able to keep those going and look for new investment opportunities. But they need people to pay their taxes so they can fund this insane war. So that's what he's been doing. And like I said, other friends have chosen different ways of supporting our church that we went to in Ukraine. They've lost a couple of people to the war, you know, soldiers who didn't make it home. And, yeah, it's. It's so hard. But, you know, other miracles, I think sometimes we expect the big ones, the parting of the red seas, you know, the ones feeding the 5000. Those are the most obvious ones. And yet one of my favorite miracles in the Bible is when the Israelites are wandering through the desert and it said their clothing did nothing where at, right. I think that's so underrated. As a mom of twelve children. Wow, this is an amazing miracle right here. And I think that sometimes, yeah, we want to see the big flashy things. And yet, to me, the miracle of how God is strengthening the church and moving in the church, those are some of the miracles, the ministry that they've been able to have to people who. Yeah, maybe because life was really good for so many Ukrainians, there was a large middle class and there was, you know, things have been going really well. That's all been obliterated. And so, yeah, I think there's some more soul searching that's going on and happening. And the soldiers definitely, as they are confronted with the very real fact that they are, you know, going to be in hot, heavy fire, that they can die. So facing your own mortality brings a certain seriousness to life.

[30:25] Jan: It's so, I don't know, just even imagining living in that situation, having things here that would happen that would disrupt your life like that, or that would even be fearful or I, you know, on a date, that whole reality, it's just hard to wrap your mind around.

[30:45] Heather: I mean, Tim and I prayed about it extensively about whether he should go and help and be active on the ground. And one of our concerns, and we saw this when we were living there full time, there are a lot of very well meaning people come over and think that they're going to help, and really what they end up being is a burden on the local population, you know, and it's something that you can't establish relationships and you can't do some good. But overall, we found that a lot of these very, like I said, very well meaning people, hearts of gold, they didn't really end up being a service. It was oftentimes a drain on the local population. So that was a huge concern of ours. We do speak the language. So that was something that we thought, you know, if Tim could help in some humanitarian aid things or whatever else, we just didn't want to know. So we prayed about it. We talked with people. At the time we were at the beginning, the government was actually asking people to stay out. Even the people who had fled in the early days, they asked them to not come back that first winter because just like the electrical grid had been under attack, the water, just getting people the essentials that they needed was very challenging for the people that they even just had left in the country. So what they didn't want was this huge other influx, especially of foreigners who are going to just take these scarce resources. Like I said, again, very well meaning, but take these resources might have been.

[32:21] Jan: Better to help out in other ways.

[32:23] Heather: Refugees, places or other countries. Some friends of ours who were ministering in Crimea, they minister to people with disabilities, and she's a nurse that helps with a lot of people with, like, physical disabilities. She's actually been in Germany for several years, and she helps facilitate, language wise, for these high needs patients that are now, if they find themselves in an unfamiliar healthcare system, a language they don't understand, you know, all of these things. And so she's been a huge help, you know, just with that community there. And so, yes, there's been, you know, God's placed people, you know, rather miraculously, but right now we, neither one of us feel like he's calling us to be there more than what, doing anything more than what we're doing. We still can.

[33:14] Jan: Maybe once you still be parenting, we still navigating some situations in your own.

[33:21] Heather: Yes, but we still contribute financially and we still aren't. Like I said, we're in touch with these different, different friends and trying to help them where we can, and they'll reach out if they have a specific need, they think we can meet and we've been able to do that. So I'm thankful for being able to participate in that way. It is, I think, a bit of a frustration when. And, you know, we kind of ponder what if, what if we had been living there when this happened? What would we have done? It's impossible now. I have some likely scenarios. I think I would have probably how they would have played out, but, you know, it is all in God's hands and we have to remember it is the work of God that we are invited to participate in. And so, yeah, it's been interesting, but we are talking about going back maybe next summer to. Probably to lviv. But I want it to be. I absolutely want it to be in a way that's a support and a help.

[34:19] Jan: Right.

[34:19] Heather: And not a drain. So we're ahead. I raised the question with a couple of my friends now and just, yeah, what do you think? Do you think this could be a help? Do you think this would just be a distraction? What? You know, I don't. Yeah, it needs to be about what helps them the most and see where God's working and if he wants us to participate in that. So, yeah, that's kind of where we've been at, just assessing and figuring it out, but, yeah, wow.

[34:46] Jan: It's a big, big topic. There's so many layers of things that we could go into, but thank you for sharing and just making us more aware, I think.

[34:59] Heather: Yeah, and I think for me also, too, whenever God lays on our hearts all sorts of ministries and things differently than other people. But, yeah, there are many avenues to give to the war effort in Ukraine or even just to the humanitarian crisis that's happening. There are lots of really good organizations. World gospel mission has some really good things going. The world central kitchen is doing some pretty amazing work. There's a lot of local churches I could put people in touch with. A few of our friends started nonprofits in order to actually get military gear, flak vests and some things like that to individual soldiers because the supply lines have been woefully inadequate in lots of places. They're doing that also just contributing to pay for food, to help take them again to not just soldiers at the front line, but to these refugee centers and things like that. So there are lots of ways you can help practically just being aware, and it hasn't gone away. Our attention span is so short, and God looks at everything with an eternal perspective. And so for us, it seems like it's been a long time, but eternally not so much. And I'm excited to see when I believe the war will end. I pray that Ukraine is victorious, and I want to. It'll be amazing to see how the people of God over that part of the world respond to that new challenge of putting the pieces back together.

[36:33] Jan: Yeah.

[36:33] Heather: So. And if we can be a part of it, I guess I'm just. We continue to pray and see if God wants us to take a more active role or if we're just supposed to be in support, you know, from the sidelines. So kind of fleshing that out, but, yeah.

[36:48] Jan: Well, I can put links in the show notes if you share those with me, too.

[36:52] Heather: Okay.

[36:52] Jan: Yeah. So if there's people that want to take an active part.

[36:56] Heather: Yes, I will. Absolutely.

[36:58] Jan: And that way, we could do that, too.

[36:59] Heather: Yeah.

[36:59] Jan: So. Right. Thank you, Heather.

Today’s guest is Heather miller who spent 10 years with her husband and family as a missionary in Ukraine. She’s here today to talk about the impact the war has had on the life of her and her family..

37:02] Heather: Yes. Thank you.

Please, friends, pray daily for Ukraine. That the war would end.

That as adversity strikes the people there that they would turn to God.

And that those who are believers, would see God’s hand in their lives.

I’ll leave you with this:

Psalm 145:18 The Lord is near to all who call on him, to all who call on him in truth.

Psalm 34:15 The eyes of the Lord are toward the righteous and his ears toward their cry.

Psalm 102:17 He regards the prayer of the destitute and does not despise their prayer.